Southwest Airlines ends pre-boarding for families?
Southwest is changing their boarding procedures.
[Flash warning]
The good news is that there’s no more standing and waiting for what seems like forever at the front of the C line while the long A and B lines go through. Southwest is issuing group numbers in addition to their traditional A, B + C boarding priority system. They will be rolling this out at all of the Southwest departure airports by this November.
The bad news is that families with children 4 and under will no longer get to pre-board. As of October 2, 2007, the adults with fidgety toddlers and moms of newborns trying to get used to being out of the house with so much gear will have to wait until after the A line boards. For details, read Los Angeles Times Staff Writer David Colker’s article, “Airline to end policy of letting families board first“.
I understand that they would want to do away with all the standing in line. I never much liked that either, but the poor moms. You have to feel for them. That said, I’m sure there are many impatient travelers who want the airlines to feel for them as they have to sit and contain themselves next to crying babies during landings.
Will the new Southwest boarding procedure help or hinder your travel experience?
[Ed.: Here's a link to a non-Flash Southwest FAQ page regarding the new boarding procedures. There's also a video of the new boarding process and lots of comments, posted on Southwest's corporate blog.]
Related Los Angeles Times links:
Southwest Airlines: Mini skirts & mini fare sales
Southwest Airlines: Fly 2 round-trips, get 1 free
LAX – SFO: Fly three, get one free on Southwest
186 Comments on “Southwest Airlines ends pre-boarding for families?”
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September 19th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Whew. Thank you to everyone for the (relatively) civil comments and lively debate below.
Only time will tell if, as many of you have suggested, Southwest has dropped the ball on this issue.
The question I’d like to explore now is:
Worldwide, which airlines do the best job of balancing catering to families, travelers with other unique needs and the rest of their paying customers?
Happy flying, and please, no personal attacks.
~ Andrew
Sr. Editor + Producer
travel.latimes.com
[actually posted Sep 24, 9:45 AM]
September 19th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
The poor Moms?
Uh. No. Not these selfish moms these days.
They rush on early, after arriving late to the gate, most are oblivious to the children’s cries or them kicking the seatbacks in front of them.
Some let them stand on seats and on tray tables. I’ve seen it all.
They travel with more crap than any normal human being would and then expect, because they have kids, that they deserve special treatment.
Why should others have to cater to families?
Why rush the kids on the plane only to have them trapped for the next half hour of boarding?
Why not board them last?
Also, they should disembark last - these idiots always clog the jetway by insisting on opening up their strollers and rearranging their bags and crap…..while the rest of the plane is stuck behind them
Face it - if more parents these days were considerant and had children they could (and would) control, than perhaps there would be no need for the change. Unfortunately, Families are abusing the early boarding privileges, which is why Southwest changed.
I’ll be flying Southwest more because of this.
I still ask - when shall we see an all “No Kids” airline or flight time?
It would sell out in a heart beat.
September 20th, 2007 at 6:20 am
I think it makes sense that any group with strollers, wheelchairs, etc., should wait until everyone else exits the airplane before they disembark.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Why don’t we just shove the infirm and children in the baggage holds with the animals.
Is that really the attitude out there?
These children, that are such an inconvenience to you today, will someday be in a position to decide your fate. Let us hope they do not learn to hold such dark views.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:04 am
In the article they stated that it wasn’t fair that families with children show up at the last minute and get onto the aircraft first. If they only realized how difficult it is too carry an infant through security (taking apart car seats, taking off shoes, etc.), finding a restroom to change diapers, breast feeding, all while dragging strollers, car seats, diaper bags, etc.!!! Getting to the gate takes people with babies longer and we are usually sweating, tired and anxious when we do finally make it there!!!
I find this very disturbing as I travel (mostly alone) with our young son often and find the pre-boarding necessary! We need time to get settled, get the car seat strapped into the seat, settle the baby, etc. If a woman is breast feeding, we need to find a seat we feel comfortable in (location). Not being stuck wherever happens to be left on the flight.
Shame on SW Airlines. And for those of you who say this is fair, travel with a baby, and then judge.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Unfortunately, this punishes the good parents. I remember feeling the same way before I had kids, so I’ve taught my kids what’s rude, whats polite, and at the very least, obey me at all costs when the time comes. There are disciplined children, and when we see unruly ones, I point it out to my 4 year old.
However, I know my limits. If I can’t shut them up, I give them Benedryl….my mom did it to me, and she’s a pediatrician.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:35 am
Never had a problem with families boarding first (except in Salt Lake City where it always felt like 90% of the boarders were family), but how about a “family area” (if you board first you go to this area) then I can board after and select an area where I can sit without screaming, under-attended kids? I’d give up seat selection for a guarantee of quiet and non-seat kicking. Or how about a little more interaction from flight attendants in dealing with unruly lids, drop a few of the pat jokes and spend some time reminding parents that Southwest makes fortune on business travelers who don’t care about someone else’s vacation, remind them on the microphone.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Sure, some kids misbehave on flights. But so do some adults. Remember the guy who defecated on the food cart? How about the people smoke in the bathrooms, setting off the smoke detectors? Or how about the adults who got in a food fight on the Northwest Airlines flight?
I’d rather fly on an all-kids airline than an all-adults airline.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:33 am
It is unfortunate that families will not be able to pre-board. It is very helpful to parents. I am very unhappy with Southwest Airlines over this issue, and will no longer fly their airline.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Mike, Northwest serves food? Since when?
September 20th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Mothers travelling with excessive items? Unthinkable! Shocked and amazed I am!
Let’s start with the car seats, shall we? I know my wife would love to leave them at home BUT, almost forgot, sorry, they’re REQUIRED BY LAW. To make it more fun, the age children are esxpected to remain in car seats keeps creeping up. And up. At the current rate, my youngest will be getting her driver’s license while using a car seat.
Diapers - OK, that hasn’t changed, needed them then and need them now. Of course, because of flight delays and longer scheduled time for ‘on time’, needing an extra diaper or three is not unreasonable.
Food and entertainment. Well, since children and adults can get neither on a plane, they are more necessary too. I remember getting attention from the stewardess, crayons, coloring books and even playing cards on a flight. No more.
Also, with every other movie shown on a plain being in the clearly PG-13 category, and often with disturbing themes, you cannot fault my DW or others like her from doing what they can to distract the children for the two hour violent crime drama.
The food. Truth: they don’t feed me, my wife, or my kids. So packing two meals for three children, all with different preferences and allergies, is par for the course.
As for the stroller, what’s it for? Moms, join in please, “IT’S TO CARRY ALL THE OTHER STUFF!”
September 20th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Good — the more kids we can get off planes (with their parents who can’t or don’t appear to want to control them), the better it will be for all of us. How about the parents who change their kid’s diaper right at the gate because they are afraid they will lose their place in line if they go to the restroom????
September 20th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Woohoo! I will fly SWA more! I say ban all children under 12 from flying — or give them there own plane!!!
September 20th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
I applaud Southwest. Those of us without children should not be forced to wait and allow those of you with children special privileges.
For those of you saying “we have to carry this and it takes so much time to do that” - so what? You chose to have children, so deal with it. I didn’t choose to have any children and I’m not about to allow you any leeway for your choices in life.
For those of you saying “I don’t like your attitude and watch it because these children will be our leaders some day” - actually, no. These children may end up being our leaders but they learn the majority of their attitudes from you. That’s right, you. The ones who can’t control them, let them run around, bother others, cry and yell while you sit and say “but he/she is just a kid!” One would hope they would learn some responsibility and forego learning from your obviously flawed model.
Good for Southwest! I will definitely fly with them more. If you choose not to fly because you are some offended parent - GOOD! The less kids, the less crap the other travelers have to deal with.
September 20th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Some of these comments are scary. I’m a former kid, have 3 of my own and travel frequently on business.
Thanks goodness most people on planes are kind, considerate and helpful unlike some of the curmudgeons blogging here.
Go Southwest - i’m glad you were born an adult. Karma will be catching up with you soon. Hope I’m not on the same plane with you when it does.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
This is actually a Catch 22 for me since I am a business traveler who’s been flying LUV since 1999.
There has been lots of debate about this but, I think the main reason why LUV is doing this is due to inconsiderate parents who abuse the pre-boarding privilege. There has been many times (more than not), I see families pre-board where in fact their children are older (in many cases much older) than 4 years old. I can’t tell you how many times so many flyers standing in their line will roll their eyes and sigh when this happens. If this abuse was not going on, then, I highly doubt the change in policy would happen.
The exit rows are the last concern of most flyers as well as business flyers like me. Why? Because those affected by the new policy can not sit there in the first place. Plus, frequent flyers know the exit rows are not always the best seat. If two of the three people are “big” in size then the flight is not going to be comfortable regardless of how much extra leg room you have. I feel the main complaint is with all this pre-boarding, the “Front” of the plane would just fill up and most of the time I board (99.9% of the time I get an “A”), those in the “A” line are taking seats in the front of the plane with the occasional person heading towards the exit row(s). It’s the “get me on and get me off quick” syndrome with flying LUV.
Personally, I did not mind the pre-board because in my seating gameplan when flying w/o my family, I don’t want sit near a baby nor, take a seat where a young child is sitting behind me. So, when pre-boarding was done, I already knew where not to sit. Now, this strategic sitting plan is thown out the window; that is, unless you are the first “B” person to board which now, may be a more desireable pass if the exit row is not part of your gameplan.
For those parents who say how “difficult” is to travel with young children (I am a parent too), I disagree with the fact that you feel your “Right” to pre-board is taken away. Are you late taking you children to daycare … late taking your children to pre-school, late in doing anything day-to-day? Probably not or very minimal. As a parent, you manage your time. Regular flyers show up an hour or two early under the current system. If that means you get ready at your house and leave an hour early then you normally do, then do it, make the change, and stop complaining. I do it with my child as many parents do. Those parents who wait until the last minute to show up at the airport … I bet you many do so because they know they can and have developed an attitude of “Privilege” despite the fact they could have shown up an hour or so earlier. Again I am a parent who has flown many times with my family and we’ve always been at the airport in the same fashion if I was flying on business alone. But, I also know parents who tell me, oh we don’t need to be there until the “last minute” because we can get on right away so; why be at the airport so early.
But, I do think LUV could have done something a bit different. They should still go ahead and let the pre-boarding but, given the assumption the main reason is regular travelers want the “Front” of the plane, LUV should incorporate the following:
1. Able bodied families with children board the BACK of the plane. This makes sense since the bathroom is right there as well as the flight attendents station if something needed right away.
2. Handicap people board the FRONT seats of the plane. This stops them from trying to get to the back of the plane where mobility may be limited. Also, a bathroom and flight attendent area is right there next to them.
3. When time to disembark, Handicap people stay seated and the rest of the plane exits leaving the families with children to exit after regular boarders and leaving Handicap people to exit last since they’ll need the most help getting off the plane.
Personally, I think that would be best plan for LUV and make the majority of flyers happy. It will also allow for quicker movement of passengers and less hold ups. I’ve seen this happen before where a group of 30 kids were getting on a flight I was on with 4 adults. They all pre-boarded. Those in the “A” line were angry and it showed. But, the agent got on the microphone and said; “Don’t worry, those boarding right now are taking all the back seats of the plane,” and everyone was happy.
As a parent, I understand the needs of parents but, I also understand the needs of those who are not parents. Abuse causes changes and a change was needed. But, as stated in my example, I feel that LUV could have done it a better way.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I have two young kids and SWA needs to keep the preboard for one reason- becuase a family needs to sit together. I would be very happy to wait until 2 seconds before take off to get on the plane, since every moment in a plane with a kid sucks. But without reserved seats, good luck to us finding four seats together. And I know you kid haters don’t want to be stuck next to kids- so coming in after we board helps you too.
SWA needs to choose- reserved seats, or let families pre-board.
And I would be happy with a “family” section- sounds like a good idea. I would rather have a fellow parent near me who understands why a little noise and seat movement can’t always be prevented.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Here’s my issue. As a parent w/ a 3 year old who happens to fly Southwest. I have NO problem not pre-boarding IF.. .and this is a big IF. EVERY OTHER COUPLE promises, to sit next to each other, leaving empty rows for families and not try to get an entire row to themselves. AND all solo flyers agree to sit in a window or an Aisle seat. and again, not in the middle of a row just to try to get it to themselves, because guess what… these days, flights are almost always full. you’re not going to get it and you’re just going to have to move anyway, or have to sit in between me and my kid, who will be constantly talking to me and playing.
And I’m sure all of you single or kid-less couples do this. I feel I can make that judgement since you seem to think that no parents can control there kids on a plane or that kids should act like 40 year olds on a plane.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Ah yes, now to be called a child hater. For the record, I don’t hate children, but I do hate the parents who can’t control their children and decide that others need to put up with their unruly spawn or be deemed a “curmudgeon” or somehow less than human.
There are parents out there who can control their children and who respect the rules. I applaud them and know their children will grow into respectable and respectful adults. My comments are directed at those who have children and believe they have somehow won the privilege lottery (I hesitate to use the term “parent” to describe those people).
Business Traveler - karma has nothing to do with it. If your 3 children are courteous and respectful, I will respond with nothing but courtesy, respect, and helpfulness. If your children are otherwise, I doubt if you will be on a plane with me when karma catches up with me because that can only mean I will have a nice, quiet and uneventful flight.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
The “No Kids” Airline would be an excellent idea. I would be a repeating customer, even if I had to pay a premium for it. I can’t count how many times I have been miserable on a flight because of screaming kids and lazy parents. Note to parents: The kids are your responsibility not everyone else’s if you can’t control them don’t bring them.
September 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
I am a mother of 2 and have travelled with them often…I get irritated at other people’s children when they misbehave or are rude in public. But some things can’t change… We were all children once and will hopefully all be old. But you make a choice to fly as a form or travel, you choose not to correct your child’s or your own offensive behavior. The airlines are in a catch 22 trying to accomidate everyone’s needs. Can’t we all just get along? Be courious, take responsibilty for your actions, set the example…..
September 20th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
I have never understood why SWA did not do assigned seating. Would assigned seating cause them to go bankrupt or something? It seems it would be a win/win situation for the airline. Parents with children could sit together and those without children could choose prefered seats when booking. Customers would be happy, so SWA should be happy.
September 20th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
I too am a parent who keeps close wraps on her children as to avoid (or at least lesson) any inconvenience or disturbance to other passengers. And, much like another parent who posted, utilize benedryl to assist w/my child’s comfort (as well as others) on an airplane.
Whle I am a proponent of process efficiencies, best practices, and bottom lines I fail to see how this new policy enhances SWA’s ability to either cut costs, streamline process, or provide enhanced service.
I have too many issues to contend with while traveling with a small child, so much so that I will pay another airline a higher rate to allow me to preboard and get settled. Once settled there are many things to do with a child, such as: read books, play games, get to know our immediate neighbors, etc.
Shame on SWA for making a decision that negatively impacts at least 30% (a substantial portion) of their customer base. I hope these posts provide SWA a compelling reason to change their business model.
September 20th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
good, now just need to do something about people who can’t fit into their own seat’s and ’spill’ over the armrest. Unfair to do or say? How about for those of us who get stuck with half a seat for a 5-7 hour flight?!
September 20th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
so called Adults are the rude ones. If you can’t have a little compasion for your fellow human then stay home. Next the disabled are going to be too much bother because you are in a hurry. These comments are really sad.
PS What goes around comes around
September 20th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Steve, I think you are wrong. Most of us just grit our teeth and bear it, lest we be labeled mean or rude for not having endless patience for other people’s little darlings. If you choose to have a child, then you must accept that you cannot bring your child everywhere with you. It is these parents’ blatant disregard for rules of common courtesy that result in their rearing whiny, spoiled, insolent children who merely follow their parents’ attitude of entitlement. Southwest Airlines’ decision is the end result of this attitude.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
What southwest is doing is catering to their key demographic: the business traveler. Its a business decision. It also further cements their position as the Greyhound Bus of air travel. Don’t be surprised if the seat is still warm from the passenger right before you.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
I have 2 children under 2 and really appreciated SWA’s preboarding policy. For the posters who think its unfair that parents can show up late and still board early, do you really want us showing up an hour or two early. My 20 month old is a well-behaved but active toddler. He needs time to run around and LAX is not a safe place for him to be outside his stroller. We try to limit travel time because no matter what once we get outside a 5 hour travel time frame, he’s going to melt-down. It’s not that he’s ill-behaved or bad, its his age. BTW, I can’t give him Benadryl before the flight to sedate him; it actually makes him more hyperactive.
For the most part, our fellow passengers have been wonderful regarding our kids. The only person who ever told my baby to shut up (DS was 9 months at the time), had woken him up by engaging in a screaming match with her 13 year old son. We don’t raise our voices at home and the cursing freaked him out.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Shame on Southwest. Parents with small children are hardpressed to handle things anyway, and then to not allow them to board first. What kind of society have we become?
September 20th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
For all those people trying to get sympathy for having children: Remember it’s YOUR fault you have children not mine. Just because you choose to have a child doesn’t mean the rest of the world should have to wait on you and all your crap necessary to fly with the kids. There should be an adults only airlines. I would definitely fly on that plane. I’m not saying children shouldn’t be able to fly, but it shouldn’t inconvenience the rest of us who chose not to have kids. You don’t like it don’t fly the airline.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
People who have children children under 10 should not travel on planes period. If you want to travel, leave the kiddies at home, or, let grandma come to them!
September 20th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
the few spoiled it for the many. i’ve seen people w/12 year olds boarding first. ridiculous. abuse of the system. i’ve seen what appeared to be relatives as well as parents and older children boarding first together with perhaps one very young child. abuse of the system. the way the children may or may not act on board is a different issue. the only issue is the abuse of the system by those taking advantage when they knew they should not have done so. and that ruined it for everyone.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Jezuz….what a bunch of whiners. I could never figure out the mad-dash to get on airplanes at the gate: The plane isn’t going to leave half-full. So what if the people with kids get on the plane first: The only people that are threatened by this, are the ones that probably only fly about 1-3 times a year, usually 1-2 hour flights. Live with it…it’s not that big of a deal. Boarding the plane last isn’t really the end of life, and I can assure you that your comfort will be only marginally reduced.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
I forgot to add that the policy probably won’t affect how we fly. SWA is one of the few airlines that offer direct flights to my hometown at a reasonable price. SWA also has a good “on-time” record which is key since delays can make travelling with a toddler a nightmare. Some parents might get fed up and go elsewhere but some of us don’t have any choice.
Unfortunately, those who are whining about privileged parents and fairness are going to discover that parents will still buy seats at SWA but tnow their kids are going to be more tired, more grumpy and more likely to kick seats because they’ve been at LAX for an extra two hours and are just worn out. Everythings a tradeoff. Get used to it.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Oh come on. Anyone–parent or not–who has to board a plane with a bunch of extra stuff (and as the father upthread pointed out, parents of young children don’t have a choice about this; in many cases, that “stuff” is required by law) ought to be able to get on first.
I no longer fly with small kids, but I used to take several trans-Atlantic flights each year with each of my children. I didn’t want to inadvertently bang anyone in the head with the carseat or diaper bag, and strapping the carseat into the plane seat, then wrestling a two-year-old, no matter how well behaved she might be, into the carseat, is a vigorous activity. If the parents are allowed on first, they can get all of this taken care of and get settled in without disturbing or delaying any other passengers. It’s just common sense.
In addition, pre-boarding ensures that a parent and child aren’t seperated during the flight. If you object to sitting near children while flying, try having to sit with a completely unattended two-year-old whose parent is three rows down.
The plane isn’t going to get you there any faster whether you board first or last. Relax.
September 20th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
The people supporting child-less travel are the same people looking to ban minivans in the HOA lane. I chose to have children and I hope that my kid makes your next Southwest flight hell. If you want childless travel pony up a couple extra bucks and go first class with another airline. That’s how it works in Mexico, Brazil, Germany. Might I suggest those supporting childless travel order an extra round on their next Southwest flight & get laid. Then someday you might walk a mile in the shoes of us parents who travel cattle call.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
A a person living with DISABILITY, I have been able to get away from my home for the first time in over 13 years, with my sweet, loving SERVICE DOG. I fly ONLY Southwest Airlines because of their TERRIFIC policies and assistance to me in a wheelchair and my Service Dog.
Because of immobiity and needed space for the Service Dog to sit o nthe floor, we are assigned the first row seat in coach. The attendants always help us, with sweet attitudes and smiles and friendly helpful coments. Thank you! Angels smiling on us.
We do board first, but deplane LAST at my choice, so we do not inconvenience other traveler with getting up and getting into the wheelchair that SWA reliably has waiting for us on the ramp by the airplane door.
Without SWA’s incredible adherence to the Americans with Disabiliites Act (ADA) law and the “spirit” of the law in California and everywhere SWA flies, I would be an invalid and have no possibilities of career building that I get now by being able to fly with Southwest. HOORAY for SWA!
September 20th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
i’m a single woman who has no intention on having children. it’s not that i don’t like children, it’s just that i don’t have any maternal/motherly instincts in me.
at least i’m honest about it.
let me first say that i don’t believe that all parents are bad parents. there are the good and the bad. just like not all childless people are bad people…even though a lot of people who have children like to make them out to be. just because i don’t want children does not make me some sort of Nazi.
i agree with a previous poster: if you have raised your child to be polite and aware of the rules then i have no problems with having children on board a flight. i understand that there is little a mother can do when an infant is crying. infants cry. it’s the only way they know how to communicate. i understand that.
there are, however, many parents who just turn off and zone out as soon as they get their children out into the public. they feel that they don’t have to look after their children because they want to be able to enjoy their flight/dinner/Star Bucks coffee. their attitude seems to be: if you don’t like the fact that my child is screaming at the top of their lungs and kicking the back of your seat for the full four hours of the flight, that’s your problem. i have a child so the rules of curtesy no longer apply to me.
hey, everyone on that flight is just as tired as you are - children or no children.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Go, Southwest! It’s about time. I’ll fly SWA more. The pre-boarding was being abused by parents, just as it was by the disabled. (One wheelchair, 5 adults?) My favorite observation was the mother who fell asleep during a three hour flight and let her 2 year old (yes, TWO YEAR OLD) wander the aisle.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
How sad. So many of these posts are so anti-family. So some people abuse the pre-boarding policy. So what? Have you never in your life taken advantage of something? Are you going to get to your destination that much sooner if kids board with everyone else and have to ask people to move or find room for the diaperbag in the overhead while the rest of us try to move around them to board? Yes it’s annoying, but I’d like to think that when I have children, fellow passengers will not be projecting such hateful attitudes towards my kids. They’re just kids. Just like all of us were. I feel that it’s a concerning statement on the part of SW.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
I used to have the same attitude as many do on this board. BAN THE CHILDREN. Now after having one, its payback time.
My attitude has changed. Ban the whiny travelers griping about the parents and the tons of equipment they bring along to keep their children occupied during flight to prevent the grownups from crying like the infants they so despise. If you are paying 200.00 for a roundtrip flight.. you have no reason to complain. You get what you pay for.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Pre-boarding families with children under 4 isn’t really for the convenience of the families. Have you ever tried to strap your carseat into an airline seat while trying to keep hold of your infant/toddler and manage all the other stuff you have to carry to keep them occupied so they don’t disturb the uptight childless person sitting in front of/next to you? It takes a while and all these people applauding this decision, and crying for a childless airline, are now going to be standing in the aisle behind families waiting to get through while they strap in their seats and their children. If you think flying with kids was rough before, just wait until you get to do with anxious parents who don’t get to pre-board. Then you are really going to love the experience.
This new policy is also going to cause chaos on flights and delay takeoffs. You can’t separate a toddler from his parents. Previously boarded and seated passengers are going to have to move to keep families together. And then what kind of seat choice are you going to have?
Furthermore, all of you who want a child free flight can have them as far as I’m concerned. It would be a lot easier for parents if they could manage their child/children without worrying about the childless person next them being judge, jury, and executioner regarding their parenting skills and their child’s behavior.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
I haven’t flown Southwest in 8 years precisely because they have no pre-assigned seating. If they did, all of these problems would be moot.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Not only SWA has this anti-family policy, also AA has it. Not only do they have the policy at LAX, but the gate agent was rude about it too. I have to agree with the latest comment on this blog. Families with children 4 and under should go first.
With respect to those of us that chose to have kids, please remember that WE are the majority and you are the ones that chose to be childless for you own selfish reasons. Remember someone chose to have you too, you were a child that turned out to be a despicable, selfish human being.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
MattMattMatt
You prove my point. Why would I pay extra money and fly first class? There is no rule saying people like you and your children (whom you admittedly hope make someone’s “next Southwest flight hell”) won’t pony up a couple extra bucks and annoy me either way. And whats with Mexico, Brazil and Germany? Do they have rules prohibiting children from first class? And why should I pay extra when you could do what you should be doing and manage your children?
As for ordering an extra round and getting laid, I would hazard a guess that most of us have done both multiple times. Again what that has to do with unruly children or “walking a mile in your shoes of [you] parents who travel cattle call” is beyond me. Remember what many people have said again and again in this blog. You chose those shoes. If you truly feel that your decision is so burdensome that we need to walk a mile in your shoes to understand it, then perhaps you made the wrong decision. There was a point when someone asked “Reeboks or Nike?”. If the Reeboks are uncomfortable you can’t blame the folks who chose the comfortable Nikes and you can’t recast your decisions by making someone else wear your shoes.
Finally, it is a slippery slope between advocating childless flights and advocating flight without any delays (read: persons with disabilities). I, for one, would never go so far as to say that a person with a disability should not be afforded every opportunity. As one other poster pointed out, delays are inevitable. As I have said before, though, children and controlling children are a choice. Having a disability is not a choice. I will gladly and patiently wait and help a person with a disability; I will not do so to parents who refuse to or can’t control an unruly child.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
The author forgot to mention the following… “Beginning October 2, 2007, an adult traveling with a child four years old or younger will board between the ‘A’ and ‘B’ boarding groups, unless you have an ‘A’ boarding pass. Those Customers holding an ‘A’ boarding pass should board with the ‘A’ boarding group.” Parents can still board early enoguh for good seats if they have an “A” pass. This is not anti-family.
September 20th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Willie! Really - “despicable, selfish human being” simply because we chose not to have children?
What turned you into a paragon of humanity simply because you decided to have children? I suppose that by virtue of having a child you and everyone who has children should be our role models? YOU may be the majority, but as history has clearly shown many instances where majority rule may not have been the wisest of choices. And really, wouldn’t you rather someone who wasn’t partial to children - for whatever reason - not have them? Or would you still call that “selfish” and wish children upon them? I have an idea, lets create an arbitrary dichotomy - children are good and childless is bad.
I think, Willie, what you should realize is that most people on here have conceded that parents who control their children are to be commended and children who are courteous are to be commended as well. It is those who take the hands-off-let-little-whateverhisnameis-do-whatever-he-wants approach that seems to be drawing the most ire.
Signed,
Despicable, Selfish, Childless Human Being
September 20th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Just a note to “Willie”, actually Willie, the majority of adults in America are single and childless. I think the last time married adults with children were in the majority was about 1969.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Excuse me people, but you’re not thinking it through. I want to know where the children are sitting BEFORE I sit down. I would prefer that the children sit in the front of the plane while I can get some rest in the back.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
For the parents who say to “just get over it,” it is you who needs to get over it. Once upon a time, a child knew his place, and his place was not on an equal par with adults who have responsibilities and who work, pay taxes, and vote. You may think your child is precious, but it is pretty ridiculous of you to expect others to believe the same. In the grand scheme of things it is adults who make the world run, and it is adults who must pay their own way when they fly. That is why adults, and not children, take priority, and just because you are a parent does not make you any more important that someone who is not. You are not entitled to special understanding just because you chose to have a child. And if you can’t stop your child from screaming or kicking a seat on a plane, then you should think about whether you are entitled to respect from anyone, including your child.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
SWA = Skies With Adults-only, or Skies Without Annoyance - ban the brats and I’ll fly every week!!!
September 20th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
It’s clear many of the people posting here never have quite grown up themselves. They don’t like the competition for their own whiny needs and overblown senses of self…. I’m guessing your own childhoods were filled with reminders of what a burden it was to have you. How very sad.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
It’s good to see the non-breeders have a forum for their hatred of children and ‘lazy’ moms who arrive late, while all the well disciplined, seasoned business travelers always arrive on time, patient, in fabulous moods, but just can’t wait that extra 3 minutes to board and sit down. It seems that if you’ve done any sort of travelling since 9/11 it would be evident that everything takes longer, and the required patience to deal with longer lines, extra security measures, and airline disinterest is absolutely necessary. But many of the voices here act as if it’s the children and hapless parents that are causing you to finally collapse into a fetal position and hold your silly breath until you turn blue, or until the mean little children let YOU board first….
September 20th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Let the kids board first and make them and their parents sit only in the last 5 rows of the plane. That way they are out of the way and out of sight for the rest of us. Boarding SWA in either SLC or Orlanda is a challenge at this time. More than half the passengers are pre-boards. And many of them are not under 4 as their parents abuse the privelege. They are the ones who have ruined for everyone else. Equally bad are some of the so-called handicaps. I unfortunately know people who have a collapsable cane they only use to board SWA flights so they can get on first.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
P.S. It must be exhausting to be so hateful. No wonder you want to get quickly to your seat and rest….
September 20th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Like many flyers, I would LOVE to pay more for kid-free flights, and it’s not as if I have much money to spare. It’s just worth it for some sanity.
(If I had a dollar for every time a parent said “but MY children are well behaved” I WOULD be rich.)
September 20th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
I thought it said the people under the age of 13 couldn’t post comments? People calling for banning children on all flights etc., sound like a bunch of crying babies . For every example that was posted of children behaving badly, I seen Adults behaving the exact same way. They are called children for a reason. That’s not to excuse parents that won’t control a 4 year old but there’s no excuse for GROWN ADULTS to complain bout infants crying on planes. Some of the people here make it seem like when their parents gave birth to them, they popped out as fully functioning adults, able to understand every verbal command and had complete control over their bodily funtions. Give me a f***ing break. Maybe parents with children don’t deserve any special breaks, but it sounds like a few of these adults without kids think they do.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
What a shame. Our family flew SWA specifically because we were able to pre-board.
I feel sorry for all those who don’t have the patience for kids and their parents. Clearly these individuals have no sympathy or empathy.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
“Give me a f***ing break. ”
Thank you for illustrating your own point about childish adults : )
September 20th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
All the children have had their say. flight attendents prepare for take-off
September 20th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
By the way, my children are of the well behave kind including my 20 month old child on a recent flight from abroad. On this flight, the crew had to tell a group of ADULT passengers to behave or the pilot will be forced to land to kick them out! My baby, on the other hand, was being a perfect gentleman.
The only thing that I can say is that I have seen more than my share of adults acting like children waiting to board and on the plane. Can we give them some Benadryl too? I travel a lot on business, I would not fly SWA as I don’t appreciate being treated like cattle anyway just to save a few bucks, but their new policy is not family friendly and should be abolished or ammended. The same goes for AA.
This policy is not design to make more comfortable for you or me, it is just to shorten the turn around of planes and create some misperceived efficiency that it is not there. Trust me on this one. Now you can always fly another airline that will afford you an assigned seat at the time you purchase the ticket is that is what you are concerned about. Anyway, who wants to fly the Greyhound of the skies? If you do, and you shop around, you’ll find out that SWA prices are not competitive as they used to be anyway.
And yes, families with small children are the majority in the U.S or anywhere else for that matter. Accomodations should be made for those with small children provided that they are at the airport on time like everyone else.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
“My baby, on the other hand, was being a perfect gentleman.”
But of COURSE! ;)
(This is hysterical.)
September 20th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Believe it or not, kids are human. They have bad days just like the rest of us. A little compassion will go a long way — and keep your blood pressure in check.
A sense of entitlement is annoying in anyone — childbearing or not. As is unprovoked hostility.
September 20th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
As I stated at the top, Why should others have to cater to families?
Notice how many Parents above have invoked the “but they are kids” arguement? How about the “you must be a bad individual if you complain about kids on planes” angle?
both are directly indicative of how selfish parents think their precious little progeny are more important than anyone else.
Why not take responsibility for your desire to carry on your genes, your name or whatever “forced” you into having clones of yourselves, and stop blaming others for how hard it is?
Families have been in the minority for Decades.
However, I will concede things are different since 9/11. Thanks to the Baby Boom that followed the tragedies, things are swinging back the other way, and more of these inconsiderant families (and a few GREAT family travellers I should note) are decending on the air travel system.
Thank goodness for SWA, AA and Jetblue next!
Kid Free Flights! - Coming soon to an Airport near you!
September 20th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
“Why not take responsibility for your desire to carry on your genes, your name or whatever “forced” you into having clones of yourselves, and stop blaming others for how hard it is?”
I agree. When did having offspring become a reason for special treatment? “Congratulations! Since you’re the rare being who got knocked up five years ago, it’s fine if your kid screams for three hours! Be my guest!”
September 20th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
If they made Arsehole free flights I doubt anyone would be allowed on . America has become a country of bullies and liars!
Maybe Arnie should be there mowing the kids down himself dressed as a pregnant woman!
What a country.
September 20th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Without children, life could not go on. Humanity would cease. I’m sorry if that’s what you wish for the world. I happen to like life. And children. And traveling. By air.
September 20th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
They don’t call it SouthWorst for nothing!
September 20th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
One of the signs of a culture/world power in serious decay is how they view/treat children. The views on here are seriously misanthropic against children. I have none of my own, but it is interesting to see how differently parents/mothers with small children are treated in airports in the Middle East. There is an emphasis on family that is missing here.
September 20th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Well, it always comes to this doesn’t it?
“My children are well-behaved”
“What about the obnoxious adult travelers?”
“You people are whining like children.”
Really.
1. If your children are well behaved, great. We’ve already gone through that - you get no blame.
2. Obnoxious adult travelers are handled by the people in charge of the plane - flight attendants and the occasional air marshall. We can, by law, punish those adults. Heaven forbid someone try to punish your obnoxious kid. Do you see the difference? Adults are responsible for their own actions and can be held to that. On the other hand, YOU are responsible for your kids’ actions.
3. Whining like children? This is a blog where you post about a topic - namely kids on planes.
So listen up folks. Simply because someone is annoyed with your loud, obnoxious kid and doesn’t think he or she is the best little present in the world does not mean that they are anything other than annoyed with your kid. They may have children, they may not have children. I’m sure most of those posting “anti-kid” things have some type of child (neice, nephew, godkid, etc.) in their life whom they love…and who is probably well behaved. Just because someone complains about your loud kid doesn’t mean that person doesn’t realize they were a child at some point as well. It isn’t about thinking your sh*t doesn’t stink or whining. It means simply that those parents out there with the loud kicking screaming whining kids need to learn how to be parents and stop using their kids as a free ticket.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
“Whether kids are wonderful” is a rhetorical straw man and completely beside the point. There’s a huge market for 18+ flights (or 16+, 13+, wherever the cutoff needs to be). I would be happy to pay more and have fewer departure options, and so would millions of other adult fliers, especially on long-haul flights. Families could enjoy pre-boarding privileges and happier seat neighbors, and those who prefer to fly without children would have the option available to them.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
I am sick of hearing the “but they are kids” excuse. How about clarifying that with “but they are kids, and I am a lousy parent”. It never ceases to amaze me how a parent can tune out a child screaming at ear piercing levels as though they don’t even exist. That is truly an art that must certainly have taken years to perfect. Geezus, how can you NOT HEAR THAT? Or have you become deaf b/c of it?
I had a wonderful childhood, despite the fact that I wasn’t allowed to run aimlessly through stores picking up everything in sight, playing with, dirtying, and then leaving all the toys in the aisles, touching and licking every pane of glass, and yelling and screaming just b/c I felt like it, I wasn’t allowed to kick the car seat in front of me as though it my personal drum. Oh the tragedy of it all, I had to remain by my parents side, not touch or lick anything that wasn’t mine to begin with, and I certainly wasn’t allowed to screech at ear splitting levels merely b/c I was a child. My parents never had to beat me, all it took was “the look” and I was seriously reconsidering whatever it was I was doing that necessitated that look, and I turned out just fine. The biggest deterrent to crying was the threat of really having something to cry about. The best form of birth control is other people’s unruly children.
Flight attendants and other passengers are not your babysitters, and we should not have to suffer because you are tired, don’t give a crap, or just don’t have the skills necessary to raise a well behaved child.
As for kids in the middle east, you’d be hard pressed to find spoiled rotten brats on the level you have here.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Angie, you janky old sky hag, how many years you been a flight attendant, serving drink and picking up trash on the regional flights? A little bitter that your pension is going to be what you hoped? Or maybe angry that nobody ever wanted to have a kid with you? Hey, you don’t like kids flying, take a Greyhound bus. It’s perfect for you. And you for it. Or just drive to Reno next time.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Let them sit and relax in the terminal and board last.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
I take it a step further. I think there should be adult only flights.
September 20th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
It seems that many people applaud this decision. This is bad for families. All families out there, lets boycott Southwest. And to the people who applaud the decision, stop being so cheap and go on another airline…
September 20th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
No doubt as to why those with plenty of bucks use a private jet rather than an airline. Its the difference between your comfy car with your own music, etc. and sharing a crowded bus with creepy passengers. As all aircraft are given the same airspace and ground-space, this adds to the delays we seem to have a lot of these days.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
I think every one of these poor souls who are bashing families for flying on “their” planes are sad representations of our selfish “me first” society. But I think F.D.R. says it best:
“Selfishness is the only real atheism; aspiration, unselfishness, the only real religion.”
Franklin D. Roosevelt
September 20th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
I have a quick story to relate here. Only once during a lifetime of flying have I politely asked a parent sitting in the row behind me to control their child, because the boy was pounding on and kicking the back of my seat. The reason why I asked her to do this is because at the time I was temporarily disabled due to a serious head injury, and the agitation of the seat back was aggravating my pain and injury. Not only did the mother in question yell at me for criticizing her child, which she said would harm the development of his self-confidence, but she also made the flight attendant move me to another section of the plane entirely because she was “uncomfortable with her child being so close to a handicapped person.”
The airline in question that forced me to change seats when I was not able to stand up without assistance or walk down the aisle without a wheelchair? Delta.
– Sara Benson, L.A. Times Travel Deal Detective
September 20th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
who’s got the best deal to las vegas tommorrow uhh i mean september 21st from Burbank, ca. to Las Vegas, NV??? Huuu
September 20th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Hmmmm….Southwest is trying to cater to the business traveler, eh? Perhaps Southwest has not looked carefully at its demographics.
Many of us business travelers are also parents, who travel with our families for vacations several times a year. You can also find nursing mothers on business travel who bring their baby and another adult with them. (More $$ for SWA).
But an anti-family policy at Southwest helps us to find other airlines where we will fly for business travel, and where we want to rack up frequent flyer miles.
For the record, I don’t fly Southwest much, as I find lengthy time spent standing in lines really inane.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:23 am
Fine, Southwest. Don’t preboard children. But be prepared to have all your customers waiting and waiting in the aisles while all the families get settled. I hope those families who do still fly Southwest will just TAKE THEIR SWEET TIME and block the aisles just as long as it takes and not feel rushed by anyone. Adults only have to board themselves. Parents have to board themselves and others, too. My children are older now, but I remember how completely stressful it was for me to fly with them when they were little: worrying that they would get fussy and noisy, worrying that I had all the stuff they might need for any situation that might come up so to not be an imposition on others (poop, vomit, hunger). Being able to board in relative peace was an important start to the trip and to keeping my babies quiet. Good luck, Southwest travelers.
September 21st, 2007 at 4:13 am
Good news for the childless! It is a CHOICE to have children, no one forced these parents into it..so why should I have any sympathy for their plight? I also spend good money for an airplane seat and don’t expect to make sacrifices because other people have children in tow. You think it’s tough dragging a baby on board with all your stroller and gear..try SITTING next to your squawling, squirming whiny child for hours on end.
Maybe they should have special parent and child sections in planes so the rest of us can enjoy a peaceful flight without feeling trapped in a nursery.
September 21st, 2007 at 4:47 am
Airlines should restrict families with children to a special section (and, I agree, have them disembark last). The analogy is the old smoking/non-smoking sections. Then the rest of the passengers would try to get as far away as possible from the chaos of the children’s section!
September 21st, 2007 at 5:22 am
For the record, Benadryl is not the miracle cure many people seem to think it is. It makes some kids MORE hyper rather than less hyper (sadly my son is one of these children). And without pre-boarding, it is likely that many people will be held up in the aisles waiting behind parents as they try to get all their gear put away. If you think the gear isn’t necessary, think again.. With many planes leaving late you need to bring twice as much stuff, just in case.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:29 am
Kudos to Southwest. Too many parents can’t seem to grasp the concept that their brats are just that. I have heard too many times, ‘well, he’s only a kid’. This is always the excuse for the brat’s behavior. Couping the brat up in an airplane for a few hours only makes it much worse.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:47 am
Terrible decision. Now the screaming children will be scattered evenly throughout the plane rather than concentrated in the front, where they always sit.
It used to be you could just go to the middle or the back and know you wouldn’t have to deal with them.
And they’ll also be in lines A-B-C with all the rest of the business travelers who claim to despise them.
This is a Pyrrhic victory for the anti-pre-board crowd. You’ll now no longer have control over whether a screaming baby sits next to you or not. Enjoy!
September 21st, 2007 at 7:17 am
I don’t hate children..I dislike the parents of the ill behaved ones. I have see the preboarding of families and the disabled abused time and time again. Also SWA applies their polices inconsistently. One gate took everyone in the party with an 8 year old kid….6 people. NOOO one adult should accompany and the others should board according to their group. No I don’t think you should get special priveleges because have children. I do like the idea previously voiced here that children and families sit in the back , disabled in the front, everyone else in the middle. THe middle gets off first followed by the disabled then the children and families. Preboard the m if you put then at the back all together. Alot of passengers would be happier. I have flown with some wonderful chlldren and made sure to compliment their parents. On the other hand i have flown near children that made everyone’s flight a living hell. Yes those are the ones that give other children a bad name. I would love to see SWA crackdown on the “disabled” fliers. Just watched someone running around the terminal then when preboarding started they ran over to the seating away and the limping to the gate. Come on!!!
September 21st, 2007 at 7:24 am
There is nothing that can ruin the already hrrendous experience of flying than bratty hooligans aping and whining. Children seem paritcularly monsterous these days and any flight without them is a better one
September 21st, 2007 at 7:26 am
Families still have to carry diaper bags and car seats. Not to mention the toys and books to keep them occupied so they dont get restless. You either let them on first or you stand there waiting while they put their stuff away. People who respond with such objection to children clearlydont have them in their lives. Not everyone has a grandma to leave the kids with. Newsflash poeple- there are babies, old people, hadicapped people, disabled veterens, and lots f others who need a little more accomodation than the avg joe/jane. Deal with it with integrity. Dont be a jerk. Buy some headphones. Also- who in their right mond wouldd travel Southwest for more than a 3 hour flight?
September 21st, 2007 at 7:54 am
Impatient malcontents! Let the moms on with their kids. I have done the airplane commuite a lot, and sure it can be annoying sometimes, but this is just silly. Have some heart and show a little courtesy. Id rather have impatient complainers banned from planes than innocent kids. If you were, you wouldn’t be flying Southworst anyway. Bratty hooligans? You’ve got to be kidding. Get over yourselves. You aren’t that important.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:34 am
Both sides of this argument should have a little more empathy. Back in the old days (1998 or so) there were partitions in the aft cabin. I say they revive those for the pre-boards- way aft and then they can preboard the normal pre-boards and they can board everyone else with a substantially open cabin. The problem is really NOT the pre-boards, it’s SWA’s failure to maintain the schedule and then they try to hurry the boarding process and the pre-boards seem to slow down the process and that’s why there is such angst.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:35 am
Yes, I completely agree with Southwest. I am sick and tired of the attitude of parents thinking they are doing me a favor by breeding and that, in return, I need to make special accomodation for them. If they have that many children and that much junk to transport, maybe they should load up the SUV and drive, thereby not exposing all of the rest of us to their virtual moving van and all of their little brats. If they can’t drive, I trust they will now fly on United, an airline I always avoid anyway.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:43 am
I used to work for Continental Airlines and we routinely pre-boarded passengers with children because of all the gear they have to bring with them. Strollers, baby bottle, bags, toys, coloring books, etc…to keep the kids occupied etc. There was never a problem and many of the travelers with children were just the mother and child/children. It took them longer to get situated, etc. I guess people will now start complaining when the jetway backs up because 1 mom with 2-3 kids will be blocking the aisle while she stows her gear, seats her kids, and puts her bags up, etc. I don’t have kids, but I can see there is a lot that goes into traveling with children and bring the extra things to keep them from fidgeting etc. They should have them sit in the back since A. Its closer to the bathroom, and B. Boarding and disembarkation would go smoother for everyone. Otherwise people are going to be lined up waiting for someone sitting mid cabin with children during boarding and disembarkation. I don’t understand this decision.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:43 am
I never flew until I was 25 years old and could buy my own ticket. I havent flown much in the last 20 years and I will probably never fly again. But I want to wish all you kid haters out there the best of luck!!!
September 21st, 2007 at 9:09 am
Bye Southwest! Was great knowing you, but you now suck! You are no longer an option for me and my family. I will NO LONGER fly your ailrline, and I used to fly you exclusively. Bad move on your part.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:29 am
That is just fine to have parents and children board after. They’ll just be chosing to sit next to you instead of you being able to chose to not sit next to them! I think next time I fly with my kids I’ll find the most grumpy, self-importaint, anti-child person…and sit down next to them!
September 21st, 2007 at 9:30 am
Im still trying to determine when civility died in our society. i travel freaquently in situations ranging from short haul SW to 1st class trans atantic flights so ive seen it all. But im shocked here to see the selfishness of so many and the anger towards children. When did we become such a disgustingly selfish culture? Im certain most of those voicing such strong antifamily sentiments are merely lashing out due to your poor upbringing.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:31 am
I think that there should be special flights for people with children. These could be posted on the airline and travel websites just as “direct” or “overnight” flights are listed. Then we would see how many parents are willing to travel with other peoples’ children as their co-passengers.
Right now, I travel on off-hours to avoid other peoples’s kids. I am fortunate enought to have this flexibility
The bottom line? People don’t want to be bothered by other peoples’ choices. This is true whether its the choice to smoke, or to drag kids everywhere.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:49 am
Damn you people complaining about pre-boarding for families with young children. Children are often overwhelmed and frightened at airports, not to mention their parents are going through an exacting ritual to keep the kids from having a tantrum or crying jag. It’s very difficult. Getting onto the plane early allows kids and their parents to settle in without being bashed by the other commuters’ luggage etc.
If you allow the children to get situated and remain calm, they don’t freak out on the plane. It’s easy as that.
And for commenter “Rob,” are you too much of a baby yourself to ask the parent to stop the behaviour you dislike? Evidently so. How about some compassion? You’re probably that same jerk who tries to cut in front of everyone getting onto the freeway, it’s all about you you you, isn’t it?
For the record, people with young children who cry do not mind other people’s children crying. Why? Because we have all been there, we all understand it. It’s called awakening to someone else’s reality. Plus, we awakened types understand that children are children, not Nietzschean ubermenschen like all of you who want child-free planes or family-only flights. When you start raising a child you see how unhelpful people can be, and when someone does help you or tries to understand your situation it is a godsend.
And that’s what’s wrong with America today. Until this society starts showing some real compassion for children and those who are raising them, we will continue to have children who grow up against the system. Until you, as an adult, show by your example how to live rightly, the next generation will never understand. Be a good example. Help those who have a heavier load than you. Be compassionate towards young minds. Get out of your own ego-centric world.
Good day!
September 21st, 2007 at 10:02 am
Hey, I think this is great! No more pre-boarding for small kids!
Of course, I know that all the SW passengers like Mr. “GoGo Southwest” above will not mind at all waiting in the aisle of the aircraft as I get my 2 kids settled into their seats, unpack some things from the carry-on in the overhead, readjust their seats, get them blankets, pull out some snacks, bend over the pick up the toys — all while standing in the aisle, leaning over my seat.
Of course, this will delay boarding and consequently delay getting the doors closed and delay push-back and delay departure and delay connections.
But who cares about all that? No more special treatment for families! Yippee.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:12 am
If I buy three seats and we can’t find three seats next to each other after everyone else boards, how this child-hostile folks feel sitting next to unsupervised 2 year old? Or should Southwest and all airlines ban children from flying. IT’S GOOD THING NONE OF US WERE CHILDREN ONCE! I bet those complaining about children were gentle and mannerly children. RIGHT! Insensitive and selfish children grow up to be insensitive and selfish adults who complain about children on planes.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:22 am
I never understood why anyone would want to travel with a small child on an airplane. If adults can barely stand it, what do you think the children are going through. That being said, I am 1 of 5 children. My parents never flew with us until the youngest was 12. Reason: “It’s too much hastle.” We drove everywhere. We took family vacations from Boston to Orlando, driving each time. Why drive? It was easier and less embaressing for my parents to put us and all of our junk into the van than it was for us to go to the airport. Face the facts parents, even the most well behaved child is spontaneous and can easily make a scene. If you get in the car, you don’t have this problem anymore. When was the last time you heard someone complain about “that smelly crying baby in the car next to me on the free way”? Roll the window up.
When we fly we have to consider the group dynamics. We don’t have a choice once the doors have been closed and the plane is airborne. If your child throws a nutty because they are bored, uncomfortable, their ears are hurting or they are just the Devil’s Spawn, you should feel bad, remedy the situation, and appologize to everyone else that didn’t get a discounted fare and pitch a fit (even though we should all pitch a fit at the way modern airlines treat us…. Moooooo).
“But it’s christmas and we have to go to Grandma’s!”
-No, you don’t, have Grandma come to you. Stop being lazy and host the holiday yourself.
“But we have to go on vacation”
-No, you can drive there.
“But we’re going over seas!”
-Is it because you want to? Stop being selfish… your four year old is not in the Army going to fight WWII in Europe and won’t remember Paris anyway.
Listen, I understand there are situations where it might be essential to fly, and for those situations, be reasonable, show up early, sit in back (if you’re flying Southwest), and get off the plane last. And for Christ’s sake, don’t whip out the Ta Ta’s if you’re sitting next to anyone who can see. Ask the flight attendant for some privacy and i’m sure they’ll find a way to accomodate you. Otherwise, Drive.
The same goes for all the smokers in this world… and when you drive and smoke at the same time, roll up the window. If you don’t like the way it smells, you shouldn’t be smoking anyway.
Why not have families only and no children allowed flights during the holidays? After all, they have Mommy and Me movies…
September 21st, 2007 at 10:30 am
they should ban stupid singles and uptight business travellers. take away their cell phones , i mean, let’s face it, who wants to listen to some idiot yelling into a cell phone about stock options or schedules, or some nit wit twenty something complaining about their boyfriend/girlfriend. I guess it really depends on your perspective. i would rather be surrounded by families. maybe there should be flights for just families. and i agree with a previous comment…now the families will be picking who they sit beside instead of the other way around. we always sit near the other families when we preboard so the a__ holes can sit as far away as possible but now we won’t have a choice.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:40 am
look, either keep the kids in line or don’t bring em on board. I sat thru this crap on a flight back from hawaii. for 5 hours recently, crying out of control kids and all that. what a major drag. and bad end to a great vaca.i say drug em, shut em up, or leave them at home or board them at the pound. first off, 7 should be the min age for a child to travel. below that age, either drive, take the train or ship em through fedex. Maybe if these parents would use tad more physical punshment at home, and less verbal encouragement to correct bad behavior these brats would get in line. tell ya what, had i acted up on a flight when i was young my dad would have corrected that behavior right away without further disturbance to anyone. all you goodie parents who think ur kids are royality and can do no wrong only bread more self centered do what you want types in this world. double charge to bring kids on, and raise prices for the parents would correct the problem outright.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:41 am
I don’t know if they mentioned it, but this policy was tested in Dallas for a few months, and they’ve been analyzing their boarding procedures for three years. This policy isn’t anti-family (as far as I’ve heard, they don’t send you under the plane with the luggage or deny you a beverage), the policy is speed friendly. It enables you and your children as well as everyone else to get where they’re going faster. It’s for everyone. I’m sure you’ll get used to it in a few months and won’t even notice it. And hey, you can try for an A boarding pass like everyone else. Then it’s not even an issue, is it?
September 21st, 2007 at 10:54 am
Why are American parents in the 21st century so entitled? While the family unit is an important component of our country, I am tired of the sense of entitlement from this generation of parents. Our current thirty-something parents are so over-the-top when it comes to their children (airplane behavior is a good example).
Flying is a privilege, not a right. Yet too many parents feel it is their right to pre-board, displace other passengers to middle seats because they did not reserve seats together, and subject the rest of the plane to poorly behaved children. It is a culture shift among today’s young parents…and I am of this generation. It is not that I am anti-children but quite the opposite. My problem is the entitlement and the lack of respect that today’s parents have for those around them. If you must travel with young children then do your best to have them behave. What happened to the considerate parents of yesterday who would actually do everything possible to minimize public disruption? I have no problem with my friends children crying, being loud, and having fun when we are at their house, they are at my house, we’re at a water park, etc. But when in public and in confined spaces (restaurants, planes, theatres) I do not think it too much to ask that a parent be a considerate parent. For the record, I have flown many times and observed very considerate parents. However, I think this is becoming more and more rare.
Why should the rest of the world be subjected to your crying /misbehaving children when we have either: a) chosen not to have kids, b) already have grown children, or c) are unable to have kids?
All we ask is that you show some consideration for the rest of us and tone down the entitlement.
P.S. Paul, not everyone plans on or is able to have children. And I don’t think that childless adults are the reason for society’s ills.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:02 am
“Speedy-friendly”? Ha!
It won’t take any less time for the families to get situated, unblock the aisles, get their strollers put away, etc. The plane still can’t take off, and the logjams up the jetway will be worse with this new policy.
And as I said before, the fact that people who are bothered by screaming children on a flight no longer have the option of avoiding them by avoiding the first 5-6 rows is the icing on the cake. They’ll be everywhere now.
The obvious answer for the peabrains at Southwest is to keep family pre-board, but have families go to the back of the plane. That way the business travelers don’t have to worry about screaming kids or logjams on the way out of the plane making them late for connecting flights, and getting in Group A or B is more meaningful because it means you can be right up front and farthest away from the racket. Thus, more people will do online check-in an attempt to get into Group A or B, and your confirmed passenger list will be fuller, sooner. Works all the way around. Duh!
September 21st, 2007 at 11:25 am
I agree with the other person above:
- Allow children and elderly or disabled to get on first…but…
— Familys with children must sit at the back.
— Elderly and disabled must sit at the front.
— Elderly and disabled must wait for rest of plane to empty before leaving.
The above is harse but doesn’t penalize the highest percentage group, and the business travelers who spend far more than families.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:49 am
Southwest is under the misguided notion that by eliminating pre-boarding, they’ll save other passengers from having to wait behind families. WRONG! Now we’ll just back up the jet way and clog the aisles even more while we’re folding up the strollers, packing away the car seats, unloading the toy bag, etc.
So for all you business travlers out there who feel you deserve more from your flight experience, watch out… you might find yourself stuck behind me in the aisle as I’m unloading all my crap with my screaming 2 year old boy flailing around.
What are they thinking??
September 21st, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Paul Covington - Thanks for the shout out, but I’m sorry to say, your profile of me is way off.
In fact, I agree with everything Mark said just above this post regarding the children and their Parents..
Well put, Mark.
I’ll add for Paul’s reassurance, I do take the initiative and ask the Parents to correct the situation. Most react as the lady did to Ms. Benson above - they get defensive as if I’m challenging their child’s honor, when in reality, I’m only questioning their lack of parenting skills, as it seems they are oblivious.
On recent flight, my seatmate was getting the back of his chair pummeled by a 5-6 year old. After the guy repeatedly askied a mother to have her child stop kicking his chair (to no avail), the third man in my row finally asked the kid to stop. The mother reprimanded him and told him ‘Not to discipline my child”.
In a loud voice the whole plane heard, he replied, “Lady, if you were a better parent i wouldn’t have to.”
Amen.
The kid did not kick the seat the rest of the flight. In her embarrassment, she found her parental skills. They must have been all the way at the bottom of the diaper bag.
The entire airline experience would be better if more of the adults with disruptive children were
responsible parents and managed their kids so they are good passengers.
I don’t hate children, just parents who lack the skills to raise them correctly and then foist them on the public.
My not liking rude or ill mannered children and their sad excuses for parents doesn’t turn kids against society, Paul.
It’s the inefficient parenting.
They learn the most from their parents, and you are right - if they see mommy and daddy allowing them to get away with being bratty and letting them talk back and not respect authority, well, why wouldn’t they think that’s okay?
That is no one’s fault but the Parents of today.
The burden does not lie at everyone else’s feet to “help” you raise your children- we already pay enough taxes for your kids as it is.
September 21st, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Just wait until you see how long I can block the aisle with my child’s car seat if you don’t allow me to pre-board! Bring it on! I love a challenge!
Seat kicking? We’re going to practice now! My kids will be champion seat kickers after I finish coaching them! Woohoo!
No more manners from me and my kids on SW! Come on - board me last and you can sit next to my kids!
September 21st, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Amy,
Thank You for so eloquently proving my point.
They learn it by watching how you behave.
As they say, it takes a license to drive, but not have children.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:19 pm
To the parents of infants -4 years old… Who wants to organize a “Nuts” campaign ?.”( Nuts” was the name of a book written about Southwest several years ago. A “Nuts” campaign was just done a few months ago to bring back the TV series “Jericho” on CBS that was cancelled),
We can bring back the policy of allowing families to pre-board with this campaign! (at least I hope)
I’m sure Southwest had 100 MBA’s studying this issue about families with pre -boarding, but in the real world( not San Antonio) this new policy will affect families with small children negatively.
If you have cars seats and a stroller and a diaper bag and a bag of toys, this is what happens with new policy….
Your assigned boarding pass A15,16,17.
Your stressed out because you raced to get into the A group the day before online.
Now your fighting to hold your place in line with a tired toddler and a tired pregnant wife. Your finally released to go down the jetway. Ok, stop everyone. I have to unload all the gear and give the stroller to the baggage person to gate check. Hold up line: 2 minutes. Now onto the plane. FA checks Carseat for FAA sticker. Hold up the line: 1 minute. Find a place in the plane to install car seat and allow pregnant wife quick access to Lavatory. 30 seconds……
Install Car Seat in Window seat. Strap tired toddler who is crying in. Put wife in her seat. Put rest of stuff in overheard compartment. Deal with angry passengers who been standing waiting. Total time 5 minutes. Multiple this by 10 families going to Disney World…… The plane is not leaving on time.
vs
Pre boarding-
Empty plane. In only a few minutes your sitting in your seat
with your family. Your not stressed out. Plane leaves on time.
I bought my tickets several months ago. Why doesn’t Southwest wait until March to change this policy when the next round of reservations are available? We booked tickets based on the current policy.Why does Southwest choose the fall when families with Small Kids travel a lot to cancel pre boarding? I’m sure if they did this in the busy summer season pre boarding for small kids would have returned within a week.
What does everyone think of the “Nuts” campaign to change Southwest Airlines policy? Southwest is “Nuts” to discontinue pre-boarding for families with young kids!
September 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 am
I have a great deal of sympathy for parents travelling with their children. I do try to assist familes travelling where possible. They do have the responsibility of another small human being who is unable to do the same things as an adult. It does make sense for everyone to have familes with young children preboard -whether or not it is with an airline with seating assigned or not. It means the parents and children can get settled down, with all the bags put out of the way. Then people boarding on a airline without assigned seating can easily choose their seats.
I have sympathy with young children who cry-either because it’s their only method of communicating or because their ears hurt. Good parents do try to comfort their children. The only families I have problems with are those -thankfully few who allow their children to kick the seats -that I am afraid is UNACCEPTABLE. It’s not like crying. By not stopping the child from kicking seats the parent is doing their child no favours. That child will groiw into an unpleasant adult. Their parents gives other parents a bad name.
I have sympathy with parents who need to take a child to the toilet frequently. Young children have small bladders and bowels and are learning to control them. I have happily kept an eye on -and entertained children where the parent has had to take one of their children to the toilet.
But I do hope that these families I have helped are not Paul’s or willie or those BIGOTS who have decided I am selfish because I have no children. Because I’d hate to have helped a damned hypocrite who who takes my help but despises me. I won’t stop helping others but please Paul, willie and other bigots kindly refuse my help if I ever offer it you you.
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:39 am
If it came down to it, EVERYONE would have an excuse for wanting to board ahead of everyone else on an airplane. I don’t think it’s fair that young families are given preference for something that they should be able to handle on their own with consideration to others. If you’re going to have a difficult time getting your kid ready for a flight, WAKE UP 1 HOUR EARLIER!
Parents should be aware of all the extras that go with having kids, if they choose such responsabilites they should be able to deal with the oonsequences too.
I have not sympathy for a good deal of the parents with kids on flights. As if the annoyance of having noisy unruly kids was not bad enough, now parents want special treatment. Disgusting!
September 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I will definitely be taking my business elsewhere.
September 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm
wow. reality is not very encouraging when the majority of posters display a truly disturbing, dystopic lack of compassion or empathy for others, especially for children — mysanthropic dead hearts and cruel minds truly worthy of the most cynical self-involved narcissists a superficial culture has ever produced.
shame on southwest for completely proving their allegiance to the republican screed of greed & profits over people once and for all.
September 22nd, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Whoa. And I thought the “Taste of Heaven” online debate re: children was ugly. I can’t believe how small-minded, sanctimonious, mean-spirited, and narrow some of these comments are. Children are not objects, guys, they are PEOPLE. Small, vulnerable, people. Or, as another poster put it, a child is “another small human being who is unable to do the same things as an adult.” The attitude of so many on this board is, “They got needs? F*** ‘em. Suck it up, kiddo!” (and as much as I hoped “bring back the rod” was kidding, I don’t think so. Someone please sterilize that person immediately.)
I don’t have children, but I was so upset when I saw Southwest had changed its policy that I truly am considering changing airlines — and I have flown nearly exclusively on SW for more than 10 years.
I travel on public transit every day, and watch as elderly people, women with big pregnant bellies, and little children (who have a very hard time holding on and not falling as the bus stops roughly and often) board the bus, only to see other adults blithely ignoring their plight, and refuse to stand to give seat to another human being who has greater needs. I also see, however, people talking to and amusing bored children on long trips,, total strangers helping women to lift strollers on and off buses, and people who do, yes, give up their seats so people who need them more can have them.
The second kind of person is who the world needs. The first kind of person should be ashamed of themselves — it is they who are selfish.
September 22nd, 2007 at 2:00 pm
After reading a few comments heavy to one side of the issue (for pre-boarding of families) and comments heavy to the other side (against pre-boarding) I was awe-struck by how intelligent, seemingly unbiased and reasonable one person’s comment was: ONT-to-OAK’s. Although pre-boarding for families is not a right they are entitled to and so it is perfectly acceptable to have it taken away, it is sad that doing so will also punish the parents who are good travelers and don’t abuse the policy. It also benefits single travelers like myself to have all the parents and children grouped in the back, because that means I am more likely to not be surrounded by them and therefore not put in an uncomfortable, undeserved situation.
Although, as a single person, I feel single families often get special privileges (can you say, tax credits?) and discriminate against single individuals (the “we don’t want you in our single family neighborhoods” attitude), I realize that not all families are like that. Those that do give consideration to others deserve consideration in return. I am happy the irresponsible parents are being held accountable by having this privilege taken away, but I am also sad that those who have been considerate will also be getting this privilege taken away from them.
ONT-to-OAK, I hope you copy your comment and send it to Southwest.
September 22nd, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Riiight…society’s alleged lack of compassion for children & their parents is evidenced by Southwests decision to stop pre-boarding for families with children. Get real. Why should they? Having children is NOT a disability - welcome to being inconvenienced, just like every other passenger. Someone threatened blocking the aisle as long as possible while stowing their child’s car seat - how is a car seat any different than anyone else’s carry-on baggage? The immature sniveling some of your are exhibiting is pretty pathetic & and doing NOTHING for your position.
September 22nd, 2007 at 2:56 pm
As a dad, I find this policy change highly repellent. Do you realize how difficult it is to get stroller packed up while holding a child from darting out crawl space in the walkway or to get an FAA-approved child seat hooked in, and then get a fidgety two year old belted into that seat when you have other passengers clamboring around you for the best seat?
This is just further indication of the selfishness of our adult society in general, especially its most selfish generation, the Baby Boomers. Old people and children be damned–give me seat now.
September 22nd, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Vote with your dollars, there are plenty of airline choices available that don’t have this policy. I don’t think it’s a bad thing, but I’m a JetBlue flyer, simply because you get in to your tv and block out all the other nonsense, such as unruly children or infants who don’t travel well. Best wishes to all those familys with children and to Southwest as well!
September 22nd, 2007 at 3:52 pm
I would be happy to pay extra to fly on an airline that didn’t allow children under, say, 6 years old on the plane.
I sat across the aisle from a screaming baby (supposedly under 2 and on-lap…looked more like 3 or so to me) and all the family could do was laugh about how hard and long the baby screamed.
Oh, yeah, I want to give them special treatment, alright.
September 22nd, 2007 at 4:33 pm
With the unaccomodating attitude that alot of childfree plane advocates show, I’m seriously won’t regulate my children now when it comest to flights. There’s no incentive to try your best or be on your best behavior. I guess you can put me in the bad parents camp now, because if you don’t give a rip about how tough it can be, I don’t give a rip about your “plight” either. I will gladly teach my kids to do what they want, because, well, its the way the world works. No need to be nice anymore, if everyone is out for themselves, and I’ll be damned if my kids and I are going to accomodate you if you won’t go as far yourselves. You don’t like my kids, or me, tough. It won’t affect me one bit, seriously…stare and glare all you want.
September 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Southwest should be thoroughly ashamed of this move. It is anti-female; how many men travel alone with small children?
ALL of you were children, all of you were raised by parents. Any parent traveling with small children knows how necessary pre-boarding is. No one takes a plane with young children for fun. It is a simple fact that boarding a plane with small children and the things you need to bring for them (unless you want them to CRY) takes a lot more time. It doesn’t make any sense to do it while people are standing impatiently in the aisle behind you.
Today I was on a flight with eight toddlers, and it was horrible. But until there are no-kid flights, or special planes for children, there are going to be children on your plane. The issue of whether or not they behave is completely extraneous to the pre-boarding problem. Parents with well-behaved children STILL need to pre-board. I no longer have small children, and I am very grateful because flying with them– which I had to do to see my family, since we were overseas– was already a nightmare ten or fifteen years ago, and it has gotten much, much harder on parents since 9/11. At the same time, other passengers, security people and light attendants have become more impatient and less willing to help. I see the poor mother struggling to close a baby stroller, deal with a car seat, baby bag, purse and baby before she can sit down, and the businessman behind them (probably someone like Gogo Southwest) standing there with pursed lips and an angry glare, not lifting a finger. Because heck, he PAID MORE!
I would like to see a little more human sympathy from these I-make-more-money-than-a-stay-at-home-mom, anti-child travelers. No one should be allowed to comment about pre-boarding till they’ve traveled with a child themselves. And if you are so sure you won’t… don’t ever have children.
September 22nd, 2007 at 5:00 pm
““Until this society starts showing some real compassion for children and those who are raising them, we will continue to have children who grow up against the system.
-Paul Covington, on Southwest’s decision to end pre-boarding for families with young children
NOW I HAVE HEARD EVERYTHING!!!
How about the fact that every generation prior to the end of WWIII had FAR greater respect for rules and the rights of others? Maybe it had something to do with the fact
(1) that the lives of adults did not revolve around the children – all this ‘child centereredness is a product of the 1970s to date
(2) that there wasn’t all this ‘oh but its for the children’ nonsense used to excuse everything and anything,
(3) that children were taught that they were NOT the most important thing in the world and did NOT take precedence over anyone else and everything else – and that they WOULD conform their behavior so as not to intrude upon others.
My great-grandmother most certainly did not drag all of the children along to every party or event which she attended. The children stayed at home until they were clearly old enough to know how to behave in public among adults – like to the age of 16 or 17.
Obviously this person who is clueless about the behavioral mores of prior generations does not make a connection between a culture in which children were to be kept from intruding upon adults and to remain at out of the adult public eye until they knew how to behave among adults but wherein the children grew up to obey the rules, respect the society and culture and exhibit the manners requisite to not intruding upon others versus the past 37 years of “let the little darlings do what they want, they are only expressing themselves, and oh well so what if the room full of adults is not amused by the screaming 3 year old and cater to kids at all costs” approach and the current trend of irresponsible behavior, over-blown sense of entitlement, refusal to conform to the rules of society and total disregard for the impact of one’s conduct on others.
How about a LOT LESS CATERING TO KIDS and a whole LOT MORE RULES about acceptable behavior in public (for the kids AND adults, eh?)
And yes, my SERVICE DOG has 5 times better manners than 75% of the kids under 18.
September 22nd, 2007 at 6:12 pm
I think the idea for pre-boarding families was to offer a generous and deferential manner in order to offer support for those amongst us who need additional “assistance.” This would be similar to elderly and those who are mobility impaired. I rarely visit this board, but I’m very distressed to see the anti-family/anti-child sentiments here. I don’t see how this is even an issue. The issue is pre-boarding and the ramifications of the policy change at Southwest. Not whether families should travel with children or not. And certainly not whether those who have children are superior or inferior to those who don’t choose to have children. Granted, there are many ill-mannered children, but there are many ill-mannered adults, too. As in any community in which people are cooped up together for extended times (such as on a flying metal tube), nerves will get frayed. People may bump a tray table, may hit someone with carryon bags, may cut in line, may smoke, may overextend themselves over the limits of the seat area with their Krispy-Kreme induced body mass, etc. I think it’s customary for those who have special circumstances such as age, are hearing impaired, have other physical handicaps, or are carrying additional equipment to travel with children to be given special considerations. Not because they are better or worse than anyone else, but because it is an act of grace for those of us who are able-bodied to assist those who are at a disadvantage. To remove the deferential aspects and offering our own grace towards others is really more of a reflection of our own society’s leaning towards selfishness and an indication of our own psychological handicaps. In other words, the more one states that everyone should fend for themselves is really giving great insight into their own humanity, or lack thereof. May the children some of you want to prevent from traveling with you grow up with slightly more generosity and kindness than some of your are exhibiting. I don’t see this policy as a step forward for Southwest’s image. But, I assume this will appease those who had the aforementioned raised eyebrow of older children being allowed to preboard. Wouldn’t a better solution have been to only allow very young children to preboard?
September 22nd, 2007 at 8:05 pm
This thread is kind of out of control. I am a 40 something gay single childless male who takes several plane trips per year and was of course once a child myself. I mention all this because I’m one who the average person might imagine to be impatient or cantankerous when faced with situations like this.
I’m hardly a warm fuzzy kid person, but let’s remember here that the kids are the innocent participants in all this, and I’ll state further that on those occasions I’ve experienced breaches of ettiquete or behavior issues in my life wherever I happen to be, rarely if ever has this been the doing of a child.
I think both the kids are evil and the high and mighty parents with the sense of entitlement appearing on this thread are off base. I don’t know if other airlines board families first or not, but I think I noticed it with Southwest because of their seating system, and remember thinking it was nice and made sense. Quite frankly, I’m happy to stay in the waiting area as long as possible prior to boarding no matter what the airline, since you’re on the plane long enough as it is! I have a feeling Southwest may wind up eating crow on this one, and I predict they will eventually end up putting it back the other way, particularly since I don’t see what the problem is/was to begin with.
Now, a campaign to improve checked baggage systems (which I always use and never have issues with) to where people would more happily use them, thus sharply decreasing the out of control carry on baggage problem of particularly recent years is an issue I could definitely get behind. That, or in the case of Southwest, better delineated waiting areas so I don’t have to answer continuous inquiries as to what boarding line I’m waiting in!
September 22nd, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I tried to read all the comments - but so many ! IMHO, as a mother of two older children - preboarding was a great privilege and benefited everyone, those with small kids and those wishing not to sit with kids (because they knew beforehand). However, it was abused and I understand SW’s policty change. I saw on several occassions 6 grown adults with one baby, all boarding and then take the A seats. And, these parents shouldn’t feel entitled but rather gratitude. Smile and be nice. How about saying thank you ! I think good families should have as many kids as possible and we should be a county that loves children. At the same time, parents need to realize they can’t do everything they’d like to do. Some parents don’t want to give up their lifestyle and just drag the child along. No Bueno.
September 22nd, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Since becoming a parent, I’ve been surprised at how cantankerous and difficult airlines have been in relation to families.
Honestly, the things I feel should be done are all in relation to making other passengers as comfortable as possible. If I’m guaranteed early boarding, then I can allow my child to burn off enough steam before boarding (So I would show up last minute to board… in order to be MORE courteous). I want to sit in the bulkhead or behind another child in a carseat so other passengers don’t have to deal with my child kicking their seat. (Yes, I do hold his feet, but 2 hours straight is difficult) I’d prefer to board LAST if that seating could be guaranteed, but it isn’t. In fact, everytime I’ve flown the bulkhead seats have been filled with young 20 year olds. (I am not even allowed to waitlist myself when I book 5 weeks in advance on the other airlines!)
Airline stewardesses get IRATE with me when I bring a car seat… a car seat that ensures my child will not be squirming and grabbing the hair and clothes of anyone sitting near me. Other passengers get irate waiting for me to install the same car seat… that the airlines refuse to help me with, or install before I board (Unless it’s British Airways).
I hate being the person that inconviences others, but the fact of the matter is that unless I revert to the old farm way of dealing with my child (i.e. beating him senseless), he is going to tantrum. We all know how badly we are treated by airlines. My child doesn’t have the maturity to understand why he must stand in line for 1 hour and then sit quietly in his seat on the tarmac for another 3. I guarantee you, a child raised in 1940 would be the same way.
Southwest was the last American airline bastion that made part of the process easy. This new change, I feel, will find the other passengers more inconvenienced by families than they were in the first place.
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:23 pm
I have a 3 yr old adopted child. Her first plane ride was from Bangkok to USA…at age 2. She did pretty good, she had 3 small toys, no carseat, no stroller, however she screamed going through customs for one hour. she was newly adopted and freaked out, disoreintated.
Since then I have taken her on two 2 hour flights in the USA. We take 2 extra diapers, 1 book. Thats it. No stroller, no carseat, nothing. Her diaper goes in my purse. She can eat the snacks that the airline gives out. She likes the pretzels and oj.
I dont know why parents have to drag all the crap on the planes. Its crazy. I dont drag anything for my kid on the plane, she eats what they give us and she has to sit still and do what we say on the flight.
We dont have any problems with her on the flights. We dont give her any drugs or anything, we just run a tight ship. If she can fly from Bangkok to the uSA without toys and junk then whats the big deal?
I dont preboard even when they ask us to. Why? I dont liek to sit on the plane for longer than neccessary.
Americans have too much crap, and that is the problem, and they are not strict enough as parents - my kid can go a few hours with out food or snacks and toys. Big deal. She reads the inflight magazine and rips it up for entertainment or plays iwth my car keys or cell phone, not a big deal. She doesnt need a toystore on the plane.
Ciao.
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:05 am
you people are a bunch of idiots….there are a few inconsiderate parents so let’s punish the good ones too, thereby making travel much more frustrating for everyone….you want others to be considerate of you? then stop acting like a whiny female dog and be considerate of others
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:07 am
what einstein actually believes that all children are the same?
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:11 am
its surprising and shocking to hear from so many kid-haters
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:15 am
the funny thing is, i’d be inclined to smack someone if they made some of these statements to my face
September 23rd, 2007 at 3:31 am
No one here hates children.
I do not like, however, children that are misbehaving. I do not like parents who allow their children to misbehave.
Your job as a parent is to prepare your child to be a productive member of society. This involves teaching them to sit still and be quiet when necessary, such as, I don’t know, when they are on a plane!
I don’t understand the parents who are saying that it is inevitable that their children will throw tantrums and cry. You have control over this IF you are doing your job as a parent and training them at home. They will not suddenly learn to be well behaved at the airport, just as they won’t suddenly forget how to behave when they get to the airport.
This boils down to parents who are not doing their jobs at home and the result of this lack of training manifesting itself on airplanes.
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 am
When I travel with my 20 month old child, including trips that have lasted 10 hours, he has behave better than other adults on the plane. When I travel, I just take his diaper bag with everything I need.
However, adults without children, bring a sh*tload of things and actually take longer to put everything away blocking the aisle. On many occassions I have been hit with their bags while attempting to accomodate stuff that obviously don’t fit in the overhead compartment, including my child, without an apology. What about those that open their newspapers, computers or just overexpand themselves to the point in which you are just cornered and not able to move.
Life is full of inconveniences, and no you are not or should not be exempt from them just because you opted to be an insensitive, self-centered, despicable human beings entitled to all the niceties in the world. Guess what buddy? The world does not revolve around you, but you revolve with the entire world children included.
Now, let us all be fair, if you feel that children on board are a pain, their parents bring to much gear or they misbehave, then the airlines should institute a policy that no adults should bring any carry-on luggage, fly drunk, dress appropriately, use close shoes (who want’s to see or smell your ugly feet), not wear cologne, don’t read, don’t open your laptop, don’t go to the bathroom, or better eliminate the bathrooms alltogether so people would not be jumping on top of me attempting to go the bathroom without even saying excuse me. Or better yet, those that have bladder problems and must be going to the bathroom every five minutes!
You know, they also need to get rid of the windows since the sunshine coming thru really bothers me. Please don’t give them anything to drink since those pesky beverage carts are just a nuisance blocking the free flow of passengers attempting to go the bathroom or just to walk up and down so no one would die of a blood clot while getting stuck in the tarmac for hours, delayed or just a long flight.
Get my point? If you were to cater to every desire or our own whimseys, then no one will be able to fly since what bothers me, may not bother you, but may bother someone else. I worked for an airline many moons ago and trust me, everything that I’ve said has been discussed seriously. Children however, were never an issue until today!
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:35 am
If traveling with children is such a problem, then just don’t do it. Take holidays near home where you can drive or have relatives visit you. When children are old enough to travel without causing a problem for parents or other pasengers, then take a plane. There will always be required exceptinons to these guidelines, but as a general rule, young children do not need to travel. far from home. Make it easier on yourself and other, stay close to home.
September 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 am
Dave, traveling with children is not a problem, the problem is traveling with insensitive adults. When adults finally grow up and are old enough to travel then they should take a plane.
Remember one thing, a child did not cause 9/11, but adults, sick adults, but nonetheless adults. I think that the world will be a better place if children were given a chance to rule it. To day the least, most, if not all wish for a better world free war, diseases and selfishness.
To say the least, some of the comments that i’ve seen from some posters are at best aborrent, insensitive, hateful and incredibly moronic.
September 23rd, 2007 at 7:56 am
Good for LUV. Remember the days when you’d seldom see an infant on a plane? Our, or at least my parents would never dream of taking a child too young to travel on an airplane (for the many reasons listed). If your child is in diapers, needs breast milk, a car seat or stroller, do what Dave above says: stay home. None of us can have everything. If you’ve CHOSEN to have children, one of the sacrifices is that it is difficult and rude to travel with unruly children. This general dislike for kids traveling has been brought upon by lazy, ill-equipped, selfish parents. By the way, I do like children. It’s the parents that need the time-out.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 am
Southwest’s policy really needed some revamping. The last time I flew on Southwest, it seemed like the policy was that the more loudly you encouraged your child to scream, the more of your extended family members were allowed to board with you.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:23 am
By the way, I just flew SW last week. While waiting to board at LAX, a woman who had already missed the preboard, cuts into the “A” line with three toddlers, a stroller, two car seats and EIGHT (8) huge bags of crap, plus the additional huge bag of her sense of entitlement (all but the attitude was strapped to the stroller). Enough already! Stay home and enjoy your children until they are old enough to fly. You’ll end up being a better parent, be emotionally closer to your kids and your children will grow to be better citizens.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:24 am
Thank you Southwest! The whole “kid-mafia” thing has gotten out of control. People don’t want to be disturbed by other people’s choices.
Common sense and respect for others dictates that you don’t cause inconvenience to others—whether your travelling or shopping.
Anyone that holds up an airplane to make special accomodations, probably shouldn’t be flying.
Enough of the kids already!
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:32 am
Has Southwest thought this through? Preboarding families allows the people that do not want to sit next to or by small children the oppportunity to bypass rows or areas where they are seated. Can you imagine the scramble for new seats that will take place when a family with small children sits down next to or by someone with a low tolerance for children? I predict this policy will quickly be reversed.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:45 am
Paul Covington opines,” And that’s what’s wrong with America today. Until this society starts showing some real compassion for children and those who are raising them, we will continue to have children who grow up against the system.”
Riiiiiight. So…based on one airline’s new boarding policies, you believe we are in danger of alienating an entire generation of children and driving them to lives of desperate criminal lawlessness. Moreover, in your opinion, this constitutes the central social problem of our times (”And that’s what’s wrong with America today,” as you bluntly put it). Ooooookaaaaay…I humbly submit that there are other issues–the war in Iraq, the nationwide mortgage crisis, the high probability of an oncoming recession, the rapid deterioration of the environment, etc.–which _may_ be more important than whether you and your bratty children get to board the airplane before everybody else. I know it’s hard to imagine, but think about it: there might be something in the world more important than your personal convenience. Frigging moron.
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:40 am
Those of you like North Coaster who keep claiming that families are in the minority and have been for decades are misinterpreting the data. You are correct to say that the majority of HOUSEHOLDS are no longer comprised of 2 heterosexual adults and two kids, but that does not equal that most people do not have kids.
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:48 am
Rich Gordon, you are my hero. So well said.
September 23rd, 2007 at 10:04 am
I am sick of parents who believe that having children gives them the constitutional right to make other people’s lives miserable. We never took any of our three children to a restuarant, or on an airlplane, or to a movie theater until they were old enough and well-behaved enough to not be a burden or a bother to the people (paying customers) seated around us. Those paying customers have rights, too!
Our children are the center of our universe, but I do not expect them to be the center of anybody else’s universe. Our children are our responsibility and will never be allowed to be a burden on anyone else.
September 23rd, 2007 at 10:08 am
As a society, we need to be more tolerant of children and be a little less individualistic. Children cannot eat in restaurants, cannot visit movie theaters, cannot board airplanes because everybody wants their privacy and space. Nobody wants to be disturbed from their calm and tranquil surroundings.
Children will and continue to be noisy, get themselves dirty and mess around. That is how we learn as humans and you cannot change that. If we go on this path of individualism selfishness and inability to tolerate, we will get extinct as a species
September 23rd, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Wow. Some of these postings are harsh. Okay. I am a parent of one four year old. I could care less wether SWA bans preboarding families, but if they do, be prepared for your flight being delayed when all the rows are taken up by single persons in the window and aisle seats and there is no room for a family to sit down. I was recently on a SWA flight from San Diego to Chicago and we were delayed ten minutes because no one would get up so a family could sit together. The family was not late, they had C boarding passes and had a six year old so they did not qualify for the preboard.
I understand the hostility on the board that people have towards travelling children. But I do not commend it. I do not travel with a bag of toys, a diaper bag, a stroller, and a carseat, mainly because of the headache it is to travel with it, but also my child is old enough now that she doesn’t need it. I have had the business travelers roll their eyes at me when I got on a plane with my child, and those same business travelers patted me on the back and congratulated me on what a wonderful child I had after the flight landed.
But Ann,,,
To make comparisions to your great grandparents era is unfounded. It was a different time!! Your great grandmother could go to parties without her children because no one would call DCFS on her reporting that she left her children home alone while she went to a party.
and AM, you wrote “How is a car seat any different than anyone elses carry on baggage?”
Clearly you have never seen a car seat be installed into a car, let alone a teeny tiny airline seat with a seat belt that buckles in the middle. The hole in the back of the carseat to get the seatbelt through is so small that my husband can’t even get half his hand through and mine even gets stuck from time to time. I am a size four, atheltic surfer, so don’t even try saying that my hand is fat.
People, we live in a global village. Thus why you all are traveling so much for business. Is it so hard to think that families need to do the same thing? To say that families with children should stay home is not only close minded, it is not possible. To re-iterate Ann’s topic of her great-granparents, back in the ’30s, ’40s, and ’50s, people didn’t travel on airlines with kids because there was no need to. Families lived with in miles of each other, there was no need to fly to here or there because you didn’t know anyone who lived there!
This forum has turned into human bashing and I am appalled at what I was reading, on both sides of the argument. Why did a forum on preboarding families turn into “Damn you, childless heathens” and “Curse you, breeders”. I think I will start to re-think my choice to fly SWA because of the people sitting around me, not the airlines preboarding policy.
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Maybe this will discourage those with fidgety ill-behaved children from flying on planes. I travel a lot an am constantly amazed on how badly children behave without their parents even noticing. Hopefully Southwest’s next move would be banning children all together on redeye flights. How many people have had their travel ruined by screaming babies when everyone else is trying to sleep?
September 23rd, 2007 at 2:00 pm
The entire rush to the plane, something to change. The transitional zone, a place for remedy, for experimentation. Look at for example the diff. vibes of passengers and passenger situations on long-haul flights. Kids pick up what we dish out.
September 23rd, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Bravo for SW Airlines! Parents today have zero common sense when it comes to babies. Won’t control them or cannot control them, does not make a difference. I am sick of watching these holier than thou people torture an entire airplane with their children’s nonsense. Much like dragging your crotchfruit to an upscale restaurant, no one paid 40 bucks a meal to listen to your brat scream. Same with the airplane. And before you snark back, I have 2 kids. I also had the common sense not to drag them everywhere including an airplane.
September 23rd, 2007 at 2:45 pm
“Children under 5, and those traveling with them, won’t be stripped entirely of privilege. If they and their entourage don’t get boarding passes in time to be part of group A, they’ll be allowed to board right after that group, before B and C.
This is to ensure that passengers with small children will find seats together. “That’s what’s paramount to those traveling with a child,” Harbin said.”
Did anyone actually bother to read the Times article and Southwest’s policy BEFORE posting their vitriol on either side of the debate? Isn’t it typical of how the general public will want to comment about something when they don’t even ave the complete facts about what they are commenting about?
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:53 pm
I have traveled a great deal on buisness solo and with my family both on working trips and vacations.
I always keep my children off of the plane as long as possible. It is better for them and others traveling on the flight. I always keep my children engaged with a new toy or gameboy game, books to read, coloring books etc.
From the very first time they were on a flight if they ever kicked a seat, or were loud we corrected them immediately and repeatedly until they got the message.
I have encouraged my 6 and 11 year old to engage in polite conversation if the person next to them was receptive and be quiet if they were not.
Nearly every time my children fly with me,I have people remark how well behaved the are. This is surprising only in that it should not be surprising.
I agree that unruly children are a problem . This is the fault of the parent not the child.
I would also state however ,that an anti-child attitude from some adults is also a problem.
When I fly solo I do not avoid children. I treat them with the same respect and interest that I would anyone else. I also go out of my way to help mothers with large loads to carry or an overwhelming job with high energy children.
This is not special priveledge ,this is common courtesy.
I have an idea for those who are stating children are a problem and should be banned. Try talking to them. You might learn something about basic humanity you have not experienced yet.
So why not allow a special time for families to board after everyone else. The stewardesses would be able to be more helpful in attending to the special needs of families with children. And believe me there are special needs.
And the rest of you racing to the gate to make a flight, frustrated with security and the crowds, try doing the same thing next time but do it like this:
Have someone in your party be the designated child. You have to pack this person’s bag,get them their ticket,walk them through security, tie and untie their shoes,carry and push all their stuff through the x-raymachine, take them to the bathroom, get them something to eat ,and get them to the gate and to their seat making sure they have all their stuff ready to go.(Laptop,magazines,water,medicines,etc.)
On the plane you have to cut their food,make sure they don’t spill,entertain them,and take them to the bathroom.
Sound easy?
Children have to be taught how to fly and exsist in an adult atmosphere.
Adults often have to be taught to treat children with respect.
And for those of you who say that it was my choice to have children and you should not have to suffer for it I agree. However ,I also have paid for four seats on the plane to your one so as long as I am actively trying to teach my children proper behavior ,please refrain from treating my children with disdain unless they and I deserve it.
Compassion is not a dirty word.
Discipline is not a dirty word.
Have a good flight.
September 23rd, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Hearing about the ban on pre-boarding leaves me somewhat ambiguous.
I have a 1 year-old son and have traveled about 5 times with him over his first year of life.
My husband and I carried all the gear, as little as we could, but it ends up being all. I’ve covered myself up to the point of sweating so as to not offend anyone while breastfeeding, that’s a bit nerve racking if you can’t board first, having to sit some place more “exposed.”
I’ve entertained my son to the point of exhaustion so as to not have him cry and disturb other people.
Traveling with him was very hard and stressful but our family is spread far apart, weddings were held far away and we needed to see our family. We decided to have children because we love our family and they are getting older. So we travel to our family.
I couldn’t leave my breastfeeding baby at home. It’s complicated but lactating breasts are even more so.
Too bad some parents gave us a bad rap.
Now, geez, relax, it’s Sunday, go call your mother.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Folks…you chose to have the children…why should people who made a different choice be inconvenienced? Not really anyone else’s problem that you have to carry a baby, stroller, or other assorted gear through the airport. The repeated calls for compassion, understanding, etc are ridiculous….live with the choice you made as the rest of us don’t want to be part of your “village.”
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:15 pm
I applaud SWA for this decision. Yes, I was a child (a twin at that) and travelled EVERYWHERE in the U.S. with my parents. By Automobile. From VA to CA to FL to ND and Lord only knows where else. In a car you can stop when necessary and take all your stuff. Can’t do that in a plane!!!
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:14 pm
I can’t believe the nastiness of some of these comments. “You chose to have children” is not an argument. One could just as easily point out that parents are ensuring that the human race will continue beyond this generation, and should be thanked for being willing to take on all the responsibility, trouble and expense to see that accomplished.
I recently rode on SWA in front of a father traveling with his daughter who couldn’t have been more than one. She was very well-behaved (for a one-year-old) and had the greatest laugh I ever heard. She made what would have otherwise been a boring, uncomfortable flight a real joy. When we deplaned, I complimented him on his daughter’s behavior (and her laugh).
True, some children are ill-behaved. But how about all the adults who get on first and then take the aisle seats so that you have to crawl over them?
As for the idea of “child-free” airlines, if you don’t like flying with children, you can get in your car and drive to where you’re going. Then you can have total control over who your traveling companions are. And I won’t have travel with a bunch of old sourpusses.
September 24th, 2007 at 1:17 am
You can have as many children as you like…I don’t care.
You can do what ever you want in your house…I don’t care.
When I am locked up in an airplane next your precious screaming a** brat, I care and so do lots of other people!!! We don’t care if you are unhappy how we feel about your rug rat!!!
One thing I think that would help fix this mess is to charge for every person and I mean eveyrone including your rug rats! I was on a flight tonight…and I couldn’t believe the amount of crap that parents of those rug rats bring on board with them. And yes, you filled up the bins above me…he I have to pay extra for extra luggage…and I think you should too! Mandatory tickets required for everyone on the airplane!
All parents who let their children kick the seat in front of them, should be banned from flying!
All parents who sleep while their children do anything they want, should be banned from flying, and have child services visit their house!
So you don’t like what I say….don’t care….becuase you sure the heck don’t seem to care about the rest of the travelers on my flights!
Oh yeah by the way, wait until other people get off the plane, thanks for wasting lots of my time while you take you sweet a** time exiting the plane, did those children make you stupid???
September 24th, 2007 at 5:12 am
It is truly amazing that all the comments about children are from adults that were perfect children. when iwas growing up in the sixties kids were much worse than now. Of course my parents were strict disciplinarians and i got whacked when out of line. I have 4 children and my kids are pretty well behaved and i dont whack them. however all you perfect people critcizing parents either arent parents or dont remember you were little”jerks” yourselves and have turned into old jerks. Give the mothers a break its a hard job. Why dont you become a big brother or sister to a kid since all of you know better than the parents.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:07 am
I find it funny to hear parents complain about how hard it is to travel with an infant and how hard it is to go through security with an infant. Please realize that you are completely in control of this situation. You can choose not to travel to “Grandma and Granpa’s” and have them come to see you. My wife and I refused to fly with our young children, especially when they were infants, due to the difficult situation that it places them in. Infants don’t know how to “pop” their ears when the cabin pressure builds, causing them to scream out in pain. As a parent I would never knowingly put my baby in a situation that will cause him/her uncontrollable pain.
As for toddlers, flying is the same as taking them to the movies. You are expecting very young children to act like adults by asking them to sit still and be quiet for several hours. Good luck!
Flying can be very hard on young children and it just made more sense to my wife and I to have our adult relatives fly out to see our kids instead of us packing up the playpen and going there. We even purchased their tickets, in some cases, since we were asking them to come visit us. It wound up costing us the same, less in some instances based on routes.
I said all of this to say, parents, have the relatives come to see you and your kids for the first few years. Give the little ones a chance grow into flying and everyone, especially you, will have a better travel experience. It worked for us.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:25 am
I don’t have kids, and share some of the frustrations expressed by others about children on Southwest planes. However, I have never minded letting moms with tykes board first. Moms have a really tough time juggling the kids, the toys, the stroller, etc., and I am happy to extend them this courtesy. On the other hand, it seems a bit too opportunistic when three or more adult members of the family crowd in to board along with the kids.
As for the idea to have gear-laden families exit last, that makes sense to me.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:29 am
To Rob who says “NO WAY” to kids on airplanes:
I feel sorry for you. You must have been ignored a deprived as a child yourself so that you feel no other family or child deserves any help.
Don’t rant to us: that’s why you hire a personal therapist.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:17 am
Families must be allowed to travel like everyone else. It’s only fair. But sadly, many of today’s kids are given unfettered rein in life (as evidenced by shows like Dr Phil and Super Nanny).
A much greater number of kids today are what were described as monsters yesterday. But many parents encourage this formerly deemed “monster brat” behavior as self-expression, and do not want to harm the child’s self-esteem by restraining them.
Sadly, it is these parents whose obnoxious kids give the good parents with good kids a bad name. Being a good kid in public simply means respecting the rights of others. And parents need to set boundaries.
Don’t ban the kids on flights, just expect them to behave themselves respectfully like they did a generation ago.
And if a parent does have a totally uncontrollable child at the gate, delay the flight until the child calms down and can board. Oh, and tell the other passengers that the flight is held up awaiting the child to calm down. They may make some suggestions.
Conversely, non-parent passengers inflight also need to realize that changing air pressure does hurt babies’ ears. Cut the distressed infant some slack, they are in pain. Same with little ones who are teething (that can be really painful).
September 24th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Having two small children under the age of four myself and appreciating the extra time allocated toward loading my children, this irritated me. Then I realized that I never fly Southwest. This is because I cannot bear to be herded on their planes like common cattle anyway. I choose to fly United and will always pay the small incremental bit to get better customer service. This is further reinforced whenever I am on my way to catch my plane and while driving by Southwest’s terminal, I see everyone lined out for blocks on the street. NO THANK YOU! They need to take some lessons from Easy Jet in Europe. They are a very profitable airline without making you feel sub-human.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:38 am
For those of you with kids, Continental out of Cleveland has fares similar to SWA’s, only they still let us get on the plane early. That’s the way I’ll go with my family or for business thanks to SWA’s new policy.
And to those of you unhappy with letting families on first, if I ever have to fly SWA again w/ the fam, I am going to get a number in the A group and jam the whole process up for everyone. Then you’ll be saying, “why don’t they let these families on first to get out of everyone else’s way?” Boneheads.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:02 am
The good news for Southwest is: The business travelers will be satisfied and the parents abusing the policy will fly anyway (assuming SW is the cheapest airfare, as usual). I am also the child of parents who were serious about the job of “Raising a Child”. One of the primary “tasks” of a parent is to teach their children how to conduct themsleves in public. Yes, it is a task; a job; a burden; or whatever name you wish to describe it. This job requires patience and real work. And remember, it was your choice to take this responsibility. It does not matter if you got drunk in a bar one night and “things just happened”. The responsiblity for your actions lives on. The whole process starts at home. It involves telling the child and practicing with him/er how you behave in public. It also involves santions…. if he/she does not behave, there are consequences. It also involves some CONSIDERATION FOR THE CHILD. Specifically, that means, young children prefer to be at home. Yeap, believe it or not it really is true….children hate flying as much or more than adults. Spend the extra money and allow your child to have the peace and tranquility of his/her home. Don’t subject this innocent person to more trauma than is necessary so early in their life. In short: Parents…. Show some compassion for your own children.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Whatever happened to ‘women & children first’. I guess SWA’s new slogan is now ‘everyman for himself’. Wow, what a scary new world we live in.
September 24th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
It’s about time Southwest and other airlines discontinue this pre-boarding non-sense. If you need to get on the plane first, then get there earlier than everyone else, it’s that simple. In the case of Southwest, go online and get your boarding pass as soon as the flight opens up. And yes, I am a parent of 2 young boys. I’ve flown with them since the were babies and I’ve never had delays or problems getting through security. The “moms” having all the problems are the unorganized people of the world who are consistantly late for everything. I wouldn’t worry about these “someday holders of our future” getting a bad attitude from other passengers,I worry about them picking up their parents bad habits of consistant tardiness and thinking the world revolves around them and the rules of society don’t apply to them.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
I would like to see how happy the person who got to board ahead of me and my 2-year old is when they have to give up their window seat for his car seat to be installed. Oh, and do the people next to that want to move too so I and/or my husband can sit with him or will they just watch him while we distribute ourselves into whichever seats are empty? Even though it is hard for him to entertain himself at the airport, we do arrive early for all our flights. However, this is not enough when people can check in online. I have seen all of the A boarding passes disappear about 23 hours before the flight.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
I wish that Southwest would triy letting familes with children
preboard but only for rows in the back of the plane. If they
want to sit near the front then they could go online and get
in the A group like everyone else.
September 30th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Clearly, the world’ s best are Lufthansa German Airlines and Qantas Australian Airlines. Lufthansa has something called “Rotkaeppchen-Club” (Little Red Riding Hood Club), where unaccompanied minors are taken care off by specially trained flight attendants and special play and care centers at their hubs in Munich and Frankfurt as well as in big overseas destinations such as New York, Hongkong, Johannesburg and Manila. The UM’s are looked after nonstop after their parents dropped them at the airport. Upon arrival, the kids are “hand-delivered” to whoever picks them up, after they are seen through customs, baggage claim etc. Qantas has a similar program for children traveling alone, and similar play centers at its major hubs in Sydney, London, Hongkong and San Francisco. On their long hauls, Lufthansa and Qantas have special seating arrangements for kids and parents flying with kids, as well as (upon request) special meals, toys and special need kits (among them medical and sanitary emergency equipment). I have heard (but not experienced myself) from other parents that Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand also have excellent kid care on their long hauls.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
LAT reader MaryB emails:
“This is a comment for the travel section re: the adult who was seated on a plane next to a 3yr. old and a 5 yr. old. The flight attendant would not do a thing about it. Well, how about this. My son and his significant other were on a flight and a man was seated next to him. Once the passenger next to my son realized that he was sitting next to 2 gays, he summoned the flight attendant, whispered something about getting his seat changed and the next thing you know, he was assigned a different seat. I guess he thought he would become gay by sitting next to 2 of them. The flight attendant was wrong to give in. The 2 passengers were not doing anything to make anyone uncomfortable. It’s funny how some things make flight attendants change seats and out of control children cause them to look the other way. “
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:39 pm
I know change is tough but this really isn’t that bad. The A boarding group is only 45 people out of 137 - there will be plenty of space for you and your family to sit together. This is strictly implemented to speed up the boarding process. I fly with my family and I know it takes some time to get settled on the aircraft - now you are going to be doing it with a third of the plane boarded already (by the way the A boarding group typically knows what they are doing when it comes to boarding). This will hopefully shave off a few minutes and keep Southwest on time.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Southwest is discriminating against families due to the fact they don’t even cover damage to strollers or car seats (which they DID break on my latest flight). Now my child’s ride in the car is no longer safe as a result of SWA not taking care of items that are checked in at the ticket counter. You have concerns about parents hauling all kinds of stuff on the plane? Hopefully most will realize that parents have to have many things with them, since the airlines breaks the stuff that is checked. With this new policy, the people with kids will be scattered all over the plane to delay every compartment exiting the plane and potentially annoy the single business traveler .I agree with an above post. Have a kid, take a trip with them, and THEN have an opinion about how it should be done. Until that time, ask your parents if you ever cried at all during a car trip or plane ride. If the answer is “No”, they are lying to you.
October 9th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Before I was a mother, I probably would have agreed with some of the “child hater” comments. However…now that I have walked in these shoes, it’s a little different. It’s harder than you might think to “control” your child all the time, and I refuse to drug my child for a flight. It concerns me that people put their petty needs above others. Common sense will tell you that you may not be able to listen to your IPOD, undisturbed, when you choose to fly with the cattle know as humanity. What’s next? No kids, no fat people, no handicapped people, no people with short skirts, no people with cheesy shirts… you get the point . Maybe you should drive and keep all your wonderful self to your self.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Hi,
Several parents have banded together to protest this change.
Join us at:
http://www.StopSouthwestPreboard.com
And sign our online petition.
Regards,
Shaun Dakin
November 11th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
“Jeff Haire Says:
September 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
People who have children children under 10 should not travel on planes period. If you want to travel, leave the kiddies at home, or, let grandma come to them! ”
Too bad, because we are going to fly too, with our children, like it or not. I fly with my kids, and I have the inclination and means to buy Business Select for me and for them. We plan to get on first and to sit right up front in the middle of the business class child-haters, to whom I will always be polite but never apologize.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Even though I lovemy grand kids, I do not always love other people’s kids, and I would rather they get on first so I know where not to sit.
November 19th, 2007 at 11:13 am
For those of you saying “have grandma & grandpa come to visit instead of you going there” - you do realize that people might want to visit other family and friends? It’s not like the only people families visit are people with no children. If I want to visit my brother’s family, who is on the other side of the country, before he is shipped off to Iraq, it makes more sense for us to fly with one child than for his family with four children to fly to us. Either way there’s going to be some kids on your flight, but at least with us doing the traveling it’s only one! Give me break - life doesn’t always work out exactly how we want it to, and families with children have a right to travel as much as anyone else does.
I do agree that this policy seems more likely to cause more inconvenience to more people, and I have no problem if the want to have families with kids under 4 sit in the back and reinstate preboarding for them. I’m going to do my very best to keep my child from annoying you, but your attitude of “but it’s not fair, you shouldn’t get a couple of extra minutes” is making that more difficult.
November 27th, 2007 at 7:44 am
While the notion of allowing families to pre-board to the back of the plane is a reasonable theory…it has a fatal flaw. Can you imagine a [caucasion] flight attendant instructing an African American family that they must sit in the last five rows of the airplane?
The idea has merit but will never see the light of day because of this unfortunate historical context.
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June 17th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Fair warning. I will be traveling with a Autistic child and a very active 3 year old in October from Phila to Orlando. You give me attitude about my kids, I give it back! Let the special needs and kids under 4 board first. Geez how much money can you actually save by cutting this out?
December 8th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Not only does SWA board families with children last when there are only middle seats left, the stroller and car seats checked at the gate have a tendency to get lost (this happened to us on 2 out of 4 direct flights). Also, the flight attendent will get on the intercom and make jokes about the judgement of parents who decide to bring children on flights.